East Asian Dynamic Provinces Overhaul (with Citations Etc)

East Asian Dynamic Provinces Overhaul (with Citations Etc)

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EDIT: With the upcoming Manchuria patch, 1.29, these time to implement these names is surely now or never. As of this posting, the complete list of new provinces is not public, but I've altered the list to include provinces we do know, sans province numbers in the appropriate sections. Will attempt to update as the patch releases, assuming that Paradox hasn't already implemented the names. New names are at the TOP of their respective lists. Accordingly, reopening to suggestions as needed.

With the recent trial week of Mandate of Heaven, it seems as good a time as any to bring attention to something remarkably lacking in east Asia - dynamic province names.


Why is it important to add Dynamic Province Names to the base game?

Dynamic province names make play engaging and act as both landmarks for the conquest of certain nations, flavor for the conquering nations, and historical jumping-off points for players. It is not merely that we CAN rename provinces, but that we see different names put in automatically which gives us an increased appreciation and understanding for how geography and geopolitics changes through history (and how different things might have been). Furthermore, it represents a relatively small investment of time on the development side, and arguably fits within the scope of QoL features that are being prioritized this year.


Why is it important to add Dynamic Province Names to East Asia?

For those unaware, most cities and provinces in China, Korea, and Japan have their names written in Chinese symbols (Kanji in Japanese, Hanja in Korean,) which connote the same meaning in all languages, but are pronounced differently in each language (more detail about Chinese logograms). This means that there is rife historical basis for alternate dynamic province names, with minimal change to the real names of these places.

By that I mean that while today most of these countries phoneticize these names, there was a time when you would have instead have read the 'Chinese' characters in your local language, and EU4, being set during the time, could reflect this relatively easily.

Don't Some East Asian Cultures Already Have Dynamic Province Names?

Ming, Korea, and Japan are woefully underserved as of 1.28 in this regard. Glancing at the province name directory reveals that only one nation, Korea, has any dynamic province names, and those are limited to its northern border provinces. Indeed, one file, Chihan, (presumably a reference to Chinese Han culture) now has no corresponding culture at all, and thus will never proc. (The province names suggest this was meant to represent Chinese conquest of Korea and Indochina, though again, no province in 1.28 has ChiHan culture, suggesting this was an EU3 holdover or a remnant before China received most of its modern provinces and cultures, or some such. Let me know if I'm misunderstanding this, but my tests using Ming annexations produced no name changes, so I assume it no longer functions. **EDIT - this has now been confirmed by devs.) The fact that the list of Chihan renamed provinces is so extensive underscores how important this really should be.

In addition, the list, even if it were made to work in its current state, is no longer exhaustive because of the extensive changes and new provinces that have been added to EU4 over the years. There are even a couple provinces for whom the given dynamic names now refer to completely different places because of the addition and division of new provinces (the Russian dynamic province name Port-Artur being one example - see exonyms below); the list requires an update to be true to the spirit in which it was created.

While some mods exist that add some of these names, they are, of course, not ironman compatible, and I strongly feel that players would be well served by adding this flavor to the base game.

PROPOSAL

This in mind, I propose that the following names be considered to be added to EU4 as dynamic province names in East Asia. While the length of this list, augmented by numerous well informed suggestions from the community, is a testament to the extent to which we could rename provinces, I do not suggest changing every single name, as this could become tedious, and start straying away from the purpose of dynamic province names (as landmarks). Therefore, I prioritize historical citation (for alternate names), large/high-dev or culturally important provinces, and areas for which the countries have missions to conquer. The devs, of course, should feel free to use or discard any of these names, but I strongly recommend the use of names for provinces that the player is encouraged to conquer via mission, and other nation's capitals at the very least. (Note that the exception is Japanese Ilan Hala and Ningguta, whose provinces would have had Manchurian cultures, and thus Manchurian names - I found these less pressing to create dynamic province names for.)


Each name is also given citation where we note reference to this name in the real world, or how we arrived at it. Furthermore, the fact that some real-world provinces use the same Chinese characters has created a few naming conflicts where, using dynamic province names, there were be multiple provinces with the same name - in those cases we try to provide alternate names based on other geographic features, historical names, or cities of the area.

EDIT: With the 1.29 patch, new provinces in the Manchurian area may require new dynamic names; therefore, am reopening to suggestions as needed.

[OLD: As this list should now cover all provinces with claims attainable via mission, the list is now closed to new additions. Checks on the names and particularly any province naming conflicts (multiple provinces with the same name) of which there were a couple, would be greatly appreciated.]


JAPAN (& Japanese Daimyo/Ryukyu)
As a Japanese speaker, I feel most qualified to create this list, which includes a number of real names, as cited on Japanese wikipedia pages. Japanese usually, though not always, read Chinese characters in a so-called "on" pronunciation, and there are some variants pronunciations as well, so the main task was finding wikipedia pages which confirmed what pronunciations were correct.

667 Kouto "Canton"
Spelled out pronunciations of Guangdong, the Chinese version of Canton (literally : 'Wide-East') are hard to find, but this is the most reasonable assumption given that it's the same Tou in the modern 'Tokyo', and you wouldn't mix pronunciations, meaning that the on-reading for the wide character is 'kou'. Note that the way to write Guangdong has changed over the years, but the Japanese wikipedia page notes that during the Ming and Qing dynasties, it would have been written '広東'.

668 Omon "Macau"
Japanese wikipedia mentions this as the phoneticization of the Chinese name of Macau.

669 Fukushu "Fuzhou"
Named as such on Japanese wiki. Japan gets claim on this via mission (Fujian area).

679 Seito "Chengdu"
Explicitly stated on Japanese wiki. Important state and former capital.

684 Kuishu "Hangzhou"
Stated on Japanese wiki. AKA Koshu, but named Kuishu to avoid naming conflict with 733 Koshu - ironically, the name Kuishu is itself used to distinguish it from Guangzhou - a kind of real life naming conflict. Important former capital, and claim via mission - (Zhejiang area).

688 Kaiho "Kaifeng"
Explicitly stated on Japanese wiki. Important state and former capital.

700 Seian "Xian"
Explicitly stated on Japanese wiki. Important state and former capital.

703 Shotoku "Chengde"
Explicitly stated on Japanese wiki. Important as royal residence for Qing. Could arguably be excluded.

726 Shin'yo "Shenyang"
Explicitly stated on Japanese wiki. Very large city, briefly capital of Qing. Could arguably be excluded.

732 Kanko "Hamheung"
Via EasternTiger's Maps. Added as part of effort to rename all of Korean peninsula (for parity with Ming's dynamic provinces). Japan also gets claims on Korea via mission.

733 Koshu "Hwangju"
Via EasternTiger's Maps. Added as part of effort to rename all of Korean peninsula (for parity with Ming's dynamic provinces). Japan also gets claims on Korea via mission.

734 Genshu "Wonju"
Via EasternTiger's Maps. Added as part of effort to rename all of Korean peninsula (for parity with Ming's dynamic provinces). Japan also gets claims on Korea via mission.

735 Keijo "Hanseong"
Although the Japanese wiki page for Hangseong (different from Seoul) spells it out Kanjou (literal: Han Castle - the Japanese pronounce Han in this context as Kan), when the Japanese occupied Korea in the following centuries, they renamed Hanseong as Keijo because they didn't want to use Kan (the word for Han Chinese) in referring to their new Korean subjects [see name].

736 Shoshu "Sangju"
Via EasternTiger's Maps. Added as part of effort to rename all of Korean peninsula (for parity with Ming's dynamic provinces). Japan also gets claims on Korea via mission.

737 Zenshu "Jeonju"
Via EasternTiger's Maps. Added as part of effort to rename all of Korean peninsula (for parity with Ming's dynamic provinces). Japan also gets claims on Korea via mission.

738 Tainan "Sakam"
Modern city founded on area the Sakam inhabited [english wiki - see section on early history]. The logical representation of the Sinicizing of the island. Japan also has a mission to take Taiwan.

1013 Seishu "Cheongju"
Via EasternTiger's Maps. Added as part of effort to rename all of Korean peninsula (for parity with Ming's dynamic provinces). Japan also gets claims on Korea via mission.

1032 Chishima "The Kurils"
Japanese sources refer to the Kurils as the Chishima Rettou (literally, the Thousand Islands Archipelago) - this is cited on the English Wiki page. Will default to the name 'Chishima' for consistency with the names of other islands in game (also references the Meiji-era Chishima province.) The Kurils name is Russo-centric as is, and this better reflects how the east asian world came to view the islands pre-Russia.

1033 Karafuto "Sakhalin"
Cited on wikipedia - an area Japan historically took from the Russians. Japan has a mission to take this as well.

1034 Kamusasuka "Kamchatka"
Japanese wiki page specifically calls this out as an older pronunciation. Of lesser importance, but historical interest.

1235 Omiyajima "Guam"
Japanese wiki mentions this name used during WWII. Of lesser importance, but historical interest.

1816 Hokukei "Beijing"
Reading of the characters for Beijing "literal: 'north capital'. This one is particularly well cited as the Japanese wikipedia page for Beijing contains a section specifically on pronounciation of Beijing "北京の読み方". Although the final paragraph notes that pronunciations during the Edo period (1600s) would have been read as 'Hokkin", this would be the equivalent of using Shakespearean English names. More suitably, the term Hokukei was utilized in the Imperial periods of the early 1900s (before the post-war trend of using other country's names), particularly in a 1919 historical novel called 'Fate' which was meant to take place during the Ming Dynasty, and a Chinese-to-Japanese dictionary around the same time (early 1920s).

1821 Nankei "Nanjing"
Like Goutou/Canton, hard to find a definitive old-fashioned pronunciation, but this seems very reasonable, given the more well cited reading of Beijing as Hokukei. (Nanjing is literally South Capital; nan being pronounced the same in both languages.)

1822 Soshu "Suzhou"
Cited with this spelling on Japanese Wikipedia. Suzhou has great historical significance as a former capital, and as modern-day Shanghai.

1824 Onshu "Wenzhou"
Spelled this way on Japanese wiki. Important historical area - Japan gets claim on this area via mission - (Zhejiang area).

1829 Senshu "Quanzhou"
Spelled this way on Japanese wiki. Japan gets claim on this area via mission (Fujian area).

1833 Kitsuan "Ji'an'
Reading explicitly given on the Japanese wiki page. Home to several famous Song Dynasty poets and a Ming Dynasty cartographer. To be honest though, this province is of lesser importance compared to others on the list and could be excluded.

1836 Rakuyo "Luoyang"
Explicitly stated on Japanese wiki. Important state and former capital.

1845 Heijo "Pyeongyang"
Cited as old reading on Japanese wikipedia, also cited as a Japanese name during rule of Korea on the english wiki page - former capital of Korean-precursor kingdoms. Japan also gets claims on Korea via mission.

1994 Otorishima "Wake"
Mentioned on Japanese wiki as a name change during WWII occupation, and subsequently of course, the site of a famous naval battle. That said, historically interesting but not that relevant to the EU4 time.

2113 Dairen "Gaizhou"
This area, also known as Port Arthur, was historically leased to the Japanese after the end of EU4 (after also being leased to Russia and subsequently ceded in the Russo-Japanese war) and named Dairen [see wiki]. While a relatively irrelevant addition to EU4's timeframe, the province 726 already has the dynamic province name Port-Artur for the east-slavic culture, meaning that it's been decided that this makes sense for EU4. (On another subject, that name should be given to this province, not 726, see exonyms).

2148 Shouko "Shaojin"
Spelled this way on Japanese wiki. Spelling with long u to avoid looking like it's pronounced Shock-ko. Japan gets claim on this area via mission - Zhejiang area.

2149 Neiha "Ningbo"
Spelled this way on wiki. Japan gets claim on this area via mission - (Zhejiang area).

2150 Kinka "Jinhua"
Spelled this way on wiki. Japan gets claim on this area via mission - (Zhejiang area).

2152 Kennei "Jianning"
Mentioned on Japanese wiki. Japan gets claim on this area via mission (Fujian area).

2153 Teishu "Tingzhou".
Phoneticized. Japan gets claim on this area via mission (Fujian area).

2154 Taihoku "Kelang"
Old Japanese name of the capital of Taiwan [Japanese wiki], founded on the area the Kelang inhabited [english wiki - see section on history]. Although there is a city called Keelung, it's a small village, and as Taipeh occupied the same area but had more significance, it seems realistic to make this the province name. Japan also has a mission to take Taiwan.

2155 Taichu "Middag"
Japanese name for the city built on the area the indigenous Taiwanese kingdom for which middag is named (Wiki). Japan also has a mission to take Taiwan.

2694 Koryo "Gangneung"
Via EasternTiger's Maps. Added as part of effort to rename all of Korean peninsula (for parity with Ming's dynamic provinces). Japan also gets claims on Korea via mission. Also a historical military and cultural center renamed many times. [see history]

2741 Saishu "Jeju"
Via EasternTiger's Maps and cited on wikipedia. Added as part of effort to rename all of Korean peninsula (for parity with Ming's dynamic provinces). Historically significant, once home to a separate polity, the Tanma. Japan also gets claims on Korea via mission. Per wikipedia, may also be prudent to add Quelpart as a European exonym.

2742 Fun'ei "Yukjin"
As the word yukjin (literally 6 garrisons) referred specifically to Korean border forts against the Manchu, it doesn't make sense to translate this literally for a nation that hadn't established those forts. Instead, choosing to translate the name of one fort in particular, the Puryong fort, which has a modern counterpart in Puryong County. Japan also gets claims on Korea via mission.

2743 Kyojo "Gyeongsong"
Via EasternTiger's Maps. Added as part of effort to rename all of Korean peninsula (for parity with Ming's dynamic provinces). Japan also gets claims on Korea via mission.

2745 Keishu "Gyongju"
Via EasternTiger's Maps. Added as part of effort to rename all of Korean peninsula (for parity with Ming's dynamic provinces). Japan also gets claims on Korea via mission.

4227 Shinshu "Jinju"
Via EasternTiger's Maps. Added as part of effort to rename all of Korean peninsula (for parity with Ming's dynamic provinces). Japan also gets claims on Korea via mission.

4228 Rashu "Naju"
Japanese name for Naju province shown in map of Japanese occupied Korea. Stronghold of resistance to Japanese invasion during Imjin Wars (late 1500s) [Yi Sun Shin article - search for reference to Jeolla, of which Naju is a part). Japan also gets claims on Korea via mission.

4229 Chushu "Chungju"
Via EasternTiger's Maps. Added as part of effort to rename all of Korean peninsula (for parity with Ming's dynamic provinces). Japan also gets claims on Korea via mission.

4230 Suigen "Suwon"
Japanese phoneticization of Suwon's Chinese name (literally Water Field). Taken from map noting names for Japanese-occupied Korea (via EasternTiger). The Japanese really did siege this city during their invasion of Korea [english wiki, see history], so it has significance. Japan also gets claims on Korea via mission.

4231 Kaishu "Haeju"
Via EasternTiger's Maps. Added as part of effort to rename all of Korean peninsula (for parity with Ming's dynamic provinces). Japan also gets claims on Korea via mission.

4232 Kokai "Ganggye"
Via EasternTiger's Maps. Added as part of effort to rename all of Korean peninsula (for parity with Ming's dynamic provinces). Japan also gets claims on Korea via mission.


KOREA
Because Korea was not historically very imperialist, there aren't many references to Korean specific names for other cities. But like with Japanese, it is possible to sound-out the Chinese characters, and there are some instances where this was verifiably done beyond the existing Dynamic Provinces, particularly for a couple parts of the Liaodong peninsula, where Korea had a more extensive presence during the Chinese Tang dynasty around 600 years before gamestart:

??? Ansi "Haicheng"
New province from the 1.29 patch. Could use the older Goguryo name for the area, Ansi (安市) (see siege of Ansi) or literally pronounce the Chinese name (海城) as Haeseong. Notably there is a more important city in the area, Liaoyang, which was once a capital city of the Later Jin Dynasty, which would have the Korean name Yoyang (and the Japanese name Ryoyo) - but we refrain from suggesting this as it would involve changing the province's default name to truly be accurate.

??? Moyeon "Maolian"
New province from the 1.29 patch.

??? Daemado "Tsushima"
New province from the 1.29 patch. Important to Korean-Japanese relations.

667 Gwangdong "Canton"
Phoneticization of Guangdong, the Chinese version of Canton (literally : 'Wide-East') Note that the way to write Guangdong has changed over the years, but the Japanese wikipedia page notes that during the Ming and Qing dynasties, it would have been written '広東'.

668 Omun "Macau"
Phoneticization of the Chinese name of Macau.

679 Seongdo "Chengdu"
Character-Phoneticized - Important state and former capital.

688 Gaebong "Kaifeng"
Character-Phoneticized - Important state and former capital.

700 Seoan "Xian"
Character-Phoneticized Important state and former capital.

1020 Gyeongdo "Kyoto"
Referred to this way on some historical references (see section on how Xian's name inspired Kyoto's) - capital

1021 Seobjin "Settsu"
Character-Phoneticized - Large port city - modern osaka - highly important

1028 Mujang "Musashi"
Character-Phoneticized - modern Tokyo - highly important area.

1816 Bukgyeong "Beijing"
Referred to in this way in Korean wikipedia page.

1818 Chukjeon "Chikuzen"
Landing spot for the Mongol-Korean invasion of Korea in the previous centuries. Also contains the isle of Tsushima, site of many famous battles on land and sea both before and after EU4, including an attempt by Korea to invade it to quash piracy in the 1420s. Furthermore, the So clan which ruled Tsushima in the EU4 timeframe engaged in trade and diplomacy between Korean and Japan [see medieval history], culminating in a variety of intercultural clashes like the Three-Ports Incident involving both countries' traders. Arguably an iconic example of a province deserving of a Korean dynamic name. EDIT: This is now less pressing due to the addition of Tsushima as a separate province in 1.29.

1821 Namgyeong "Nanjing"
Character-Phoneticized - important former capital.

1822 Soju "Suzhou"
Character-Phoneticized - While I try to avoid renaming provinces that end with 'state' (zhou), Suzhou has great historical significance as a former capital, and as modern-day Shanghai.

1832 Daehwa "Yamato"
Character-Phoneticized - pre-kyoto capital and cultural center

1833 Gil'an "Ji'an'
Character-Phoneticized Home to several famous Song Dynasty poets and a Ming Dynasty cartographer. Could honestly be removed for being insufficiently relevant.

1836 Nakyang "Luoyang"
Character-Phoneticized. Important state and former capital.

2106 Solbin "Furdan"
Furdan was at a time controlled by a Korean state, the Balhae, and used this name [see list]. This idea was apparently suggested in a thread from awhile back but never added. While not in a mission, it's incredibly likely a Korea player will take this province in the course of fighting Jiangzhou for the other missions Korea needs.

2108 Yongwon "Huncun"
Huncun already has a dynamic name (Ryeongwon) but this is likely a typo from the North Korean pronunciation 'Ryongwon" (eo and o are two very different sounds in Korean). Furthermore, EU4 uses South Korean romanization, not Northern, and the South Korean pronunciation of this name is Yongwon. Another part of the Balhae state (see list).

2112 Bakjak "Andong"
While the characters for Andong would translate the same in Korean, the name itself comes from the Tang Dynasty's efforts to Pacify the East, so there's no reason a Korea (which already has an Andong province) which was strong enough to pacify this name would use that Chinese name. Bakjak is suggested, being a Goguryo (early Korean) name for the area, still given to a fort in the area. Korea also has a mission to take this province.

2113 Geonan "Gaizhou"
Geonan was a Goguryeo (ancient Korean) name for the area. That said, a literal phoneticization of the province name would be Gaeju. Korea has a mission to take this province.

4182 Bijeon "Hizen"
Character-Phoneticized - Location of Nagasaki - important interaction with Europeans throughout history

4224 Sangmo "Sagami"
Character-Phoneticized - historical capital (Kamakura)

MING (& Predecessor/Successor/Splinter Chinese States)
At the very least, the old Chihan list was obviously meant to correspond to these nations and should logically be made to work for all Chinese culture groups (ideally including Ming, Qing, Yuan, and all Chinese releasables) - added some names for Japan which were never in the old list, and also changed the old list where outdated. Finally, suggest more subtle changes to Canton and Macau:

640 Kundian "Pontianak"
Chinese name for Pontianak [english wiki] - important because this province is needed to form the Lanfang Republic, which is both important historically and has become a memeworthy part of EU4 due to difficulty in getting it to spawn.

667 Guangdong "Canton"
Canton is a western corruption of the Chinese word Guangdong [English wiki - see section on name]. Portugal correctly has the name Cantáo, but only England/Great Britain (or MAYBE all other Europeans) should get the name Canton. In either case, calling this Canton while under Chinese control is the exact kind of historical incorrectness which dynamic province names should be here to make us aware of. While more recognizable under this name in the west, there are many clearly explained reasons why this name does not make sense in this context.

668 Aomen "Macau"
Similarly, Macau is a Portugese misnomer allegedly derived from the name of a local temple. The Chinese name of Macau is read as 'Aomen' [english wiki entry on names of Macau].

703 Rehe "Chengde"
Per the wikipedia article, Chengde did not exist as a city before the 1700s when it was under Qing control. Arguably, the name shouldn't appear in connection with this province until it is under Qing or Manchu (though Manchu arguably could have its own name as well). Will propose renaming to Rehe (the name of the river which would have been there) while under Ming, and possibly naming it Jehol if under European control (or at least, French). Famous residence of Qing dynasty.

738 Tainan "Sakam"
Modern city founded on area the Sakam inhabited [english wiki - see section on early history]. The logical representation of the Sinicizing of the island. Accordingly, Chinese players can get permanent claims here.

725 Qiqihar "Cicigar"
While not a new province, added in case there's a renewed need to add names for the Manchurian area in 1.29. An important area in Sino-Russian relations through the period of EU4, more well known in the modern day by its Chinese name Qiqihar. [wiki page]

1015 Liuqiu "Ryukyu"
Chinese Kingdom from which Ryukyu originally took its name. For 3-mountains related reasons.

1020 Ping'an "Kyoto"
Chinese pronunciation of the old name for Kyoto - Heian. While Jingdu is more literal fit as the modern pronunciation of Kyoto [Chinese wiktionary page], but as it's also the literal generic word for 'capital city', Pingan seems a more likely candidate for Chinese-ruled Japan as a more distinct name that still relates to Kyoto's history.

1021 Shejin "Settsu"
Phoneticized. Large port city - modern Osaka - highly important

1028 Wucang "Musashi"
Phoneticized - modern Tokyo - highly important area.

1033 Kuyi "Sakhalin"
Sakhalin was claimed by the Chinese, although they never enforced the claim nor tried to integrate the territory into their empire. It was known as Kuyi (苦夷) - during the Ming era - see Early History.

1832 Dahe "Yamato"
Phoneticized - pre-Kyoto capital and cultural center

2154 Taipei "Kelang"
Name of the Capital of Qing Taiwan, founded on the area the Kelang inhabited [english wiki - see section on history]. Although there is a city called Keelung, it's a small village, and as Taipei occupied the same area but had more significance, it seems realistic to make this the province name.

2155 Taichung "Middag"
Chinese city built on the area the Middag once inhabited, later becoming a capital for the area. [wiki]

2371 Shanluo "Song La"
While not explicitly a province Ming gets claim on via mission, in order to fully annex Dai Viet's starting provinces (which is clearly the intention and spirt of the mission), you would need to annex this province.

2372 Haifang "Hai Phong"
Ming gets claim on this area via mission - 'Sông Hông' area. Was likely not a province when the ChiHan list was made.

2373 Shunhua "Hue"
Ming gets claim on this area via mission - 'Tonkin' area. Was likely not a province when the ChiHan list was made.

2694 Jiangling "Gangneung"
Chinese name for the Korean area. Added in the spirit of giving Chinese names to all Korean provinces (as was the case when the ChiHan list was first being used).

2741 Jizhou "Jeju"
Chinese name for the Korean area. Added in the spirit of giving Chinese names to all Korean provinces (as was the case when the ChiHan list was first being used). Historically significant, once home to a separate polity, the Tanma.

2742 Funing "Yukjin"
As the word yukjin (literally 6 garrisons) referred specifically to Korean border forts against the Manchu, it doesn't make sense to translate this literally for a nation that hadn't established those forts. Instead, choosing to translate the name of one fort in particular, the Puryong fort, which has a modern counterpart in Puryong County.

2743 Jingcheng "Gyeongseong"
Chinese name for the area, modern day Kyongsong. Added in the spirit of giving Chinese names to all Korean provinces (as was the case when the ChiHan list was first being used).

2744 Ningbian "Nyeongbyeon"
Chinese name for the Korean area. Added in the spirit of giving Chinese names to all Korean provinces (as was the case when the ChiHan list was first being used).

2745 Qìngzhou "Gyeongju"
Chinese name for the Korean area. Added in the spirit of giving Chinese names to all Korean provinces (as was the case when the ChiHan list was first being used). IMPORTANT: Must use the diacritic ì NOT i to avoid naming conflict with 1013's dynamic Chinese name. If deemed necessary, could also use the Chinese pronunciation of the older name for the area - Gyerim - which would make the Chinese name Jilin OR could use an older name for the area, Seorabeol (서라벌/徐羅伐) dating back to the Silla Kingdom, whose Chinese name would be Xuluofa.

4182 Feiqian "Hizen"
Phoneticized - Location of Nagasaki - important interaction with Europeans throughout history

4224 Xiangmo "Sagami"
Phoneticized - historical capital (Kamakura)

4227 Jinzhou "Jinju"
Chinese name for the Korean area. Added in the spirit of giving Chinese names to all Korean provinces (as was the case when the ChiHan list was first being used).

4228 Luozhou "Naju"
Chinese name for the Korean area. Added in the spirit of giving Chinese names to all Korean provinces (as was the case when the ChiHan list was first being used).

4229 Zhongzhou "Chungju"
Chinese name for the Korean area. Added in the spirit of giving Chinese names to all Korean provinces (as was the case when the ChiHan list was first being used).

4230 Shuiyuan "Suwon"
Chinese name for the Korean area. Added in the spirit of giving Chinese names to all Korean provinces (as was the case when the ChiHan list was first being used).

4231 Pingshan "Haeju"
Chinese name for the Korean area. Added in the spirit of giving Chinese names to all Korean provinces (as was the case when the ChiHan list was first being used). BUT cannot use the name Haizhou because it conflicts with 4196 Haizhou. Therefore, we suggest the name Pingshan - a translation of Pyongsan, a city in the area.

4232 Jiangjie "Ganggye"
Chinese name for the Korean area. Added in the spirit of giving Chinese names to all Korean provinces (as was the case when the ChiHan list was first being used).


The following are carryovers from the chihan culture file, and should logically be made to work for all Chinese culture groups (Ming, Qing, Yuan, and all Chinese releasables, see tag-list below). Several changes and updates have been made for a few Indochinese cities, and most-all Korean provinces, which were changed in accordance with Koramei's 1.19 Korea revision thread (and notably 1817 is now not a change at all)


580 = "Qin" Kale

581 = "Shijie" Sagaing

582 = "Keqin" Mong Yang

583 = "Mubang" Hsenwi

584 = "Wacheng"Ava

585 = "Dongyu" Taungoo

587 = "Jingdong" Kengtung

588 = "Mengnai" Mong Nai

589 = "Qingmai" Chiang Mai

592 = "Lepi" Ratchaburi

593 = "Luokun" Nakhorn Si Thammarat

594 = "Dani" Pattani

599 = "Jilandan" Kelantan

600 = "Dacheng" Aytthaya

601 = "Suketai" Sukhothai

602 = "Qinglai" Chiang Rai

603 = "Luoyong" Nakhon Thung Yai

604 = "Wudong" Oudong

605 = "Xigong" Prey Kokor

606 = "Bintonglong" Panduranga

607 = "Foshi" Vijaya

608 = "Zhanbasai" Champasak

609 = "Xianli" Angkor

610 = "Qinghua" Thanh Hoa Changed from Shunhua to avoid conflict with 2373's new dynamic name; original name was incorrect regardless.

611 = "Ganmeng" Sikhottabong

612 = "Kele" Khorat

613 = "Dongguan" Dong Kinh

614 = "Wanxiang" Vientiane

615 = "Chuantong" Luang Prabang

616 = "Gaoping" Cao Bang CHANGED to mandarin reading from 'Yuebei', which just means North Vietnam and clearly doesn't refer to this province.

732 = "Xianxing" Hamheung CHANGED from Xianjin - probably originally meant to pronounce 咸境 which would have also been incorrect as 'Xianjing. This mixup may be due to the 1.19 Korea division.

733 = "Huangzhou" Hwangju CHANGED from Huanghai. 黄海 transcribes the name of Hwanghae prefecture, which contains both Hwangju (黄州) and Haeju (海州). Huangzhou (lit. yellow state) better encapsulates the area. This mixup may be due to the 1.19 Korea division.

734 = "Yuanzhou" Wonju CHANGED from Jiangyuan. 江源 transcribes the name of Gangwon prefecture,which contains both Wonju (源州) and Gangneung (江陵). Wonju itself would be Yuanzhou.

735 = "Hancheng" Hanseong

736 = "Shangzhou" Sangju CHANGED from Qinshang. 庆尚 transribes the name of Gyeongsang prefecture, which contains Sangju (尚州), Daegu (大邱) and Gyeongju (庆州). Only Sangju would be Shangzhou. This is DEFINITELY a result of the 1.19 Korea province changes.

737 = "Wanshanzhou" Jeonju CHANGED from Quanluo.
全罗 transcribes the name of Jeolla prefecture, which contains both Jeonju (全州) and Naju (罗州), Only Jeonju would be Quanzhou. But we can't use this name because it conflicts 1829 Quanzhou. Therefore, we suggest the name Wanshanzhou - a translation of Wansanju, a capital of a Korean predecessor state in this area [see capital name]. This is DEFINITELY a result of the 1.19 Korea province changes.

1013 = "Gonghong" Cheongju CHANGED from Zhongqing. 忠清 transcribes the name of Chungcheong prefecture, which contains both Cheongju (清州) and Chungju (忠州). Only Cheongju would be Qingzhou. HOWEVER since there is already a Qingzhou in china (690) we can't use that name. Instead, proposing two important cities in Cheongju as currently drawn on the map - Gonju and Hongju, combined into one single name (a common practice for administrative divisions of the Joseon and Chinese circuits was to form names derived of multiple cities). This results in the Chinese name Gonghong. This is DEFINITELY a result of the 1.19 Korea province changes.


1016 = "Xinping" Ha Tinh CHANGED from Yi'an. During 4th domination of Vietnam Ha Tinh was known as Xinping (新平) prefecture.

1022 = "Tuonang" Indrapura CHANGED from Guangnan because that name is already given to 663 Guangnan. Very odd. Suggest using the Chinese phoneticization of the Vietnamese dyanamic name for this province, Da Nang (沱㶞), this being Tuonang.

1817 = "Nan" (this name is already Nan's name)

1823 = "Shangding" Stung Treng

1844 = "Chuankuang" Xiankhouang

1845 = "Pingrang" Pyeongyang
Chinese pronunciation of Pyongyang - note - this province USED to be Pyongan, but in accordance with Koramei's 1.19 Korea revision thread was split and became Pyongyang.



QING
While mostly the same as the Chinese names, there are a few places which multiple sources go out of their way to note had different names under the Qing. While related to the Manchu, several of these names are specifically tied to the Qing (ie renaming of Manchu provinces), so care should be taken NOT to give every name to both cultures if possible (and to not change the names at all if this isn't possible, as I imagine you'd need to code this to the tag switch event and I don't know how hard that is).

703 "Chengde" - note: currently already the default name
Per the wikipedia article, Chengde did not exist as a city before the 1700s when it was under Qing control. Arguably, the name shouldn't appear in connection with this province until it is under Qing or Manchu (though Manchu arguably could have its own name as well). Since this was also known as Jehol if under European control (or at least, French), I'm noting here that if any measures are taken which change the default name for this province, it should be named Chengde while under Qing. Famous residence of Qing dynasty.

726 Mukden "Shenyang"
Explicitly stated on wiki [see section on history as Manchu capital]. Very large city, briefly capital of Qing.

730 Jilin "Girin"
This province, originally named Girin Ula (Manchurian word) became Jilin as the Qing became sinicized [English wiki]. [Note: if this name is implemented, you must NOT use the alternate possibility Jilin for China's dynamic province name for 2745 Gyeongju - Qíngzhou or the alternate name Xuluofa must be that province's name to avoid naming conflict. Additionally, players will need this province to form Manchu to form Qing.

1033 Kuye "Sakhalin"
Sakhalin was claimed by the Chinese, although they never enforced the claim nor tried to integrate the territory into their empire. It was known as Kuye (庫頁) - during the Qing era - see etymology.

1821 Jiangning "Nanjing"
Explicitly stated as name change on wikipedia [see section on Imperial China during the Qing dynasty] during Qing dynasty.

2111 Xingjing "Hetu Ala"
Hetu Ala was renamed to this in 1636 by the famous Qing ruler Hongtaiji. Additionally, players will need this province to form Manchu to form Qing. [Chinese wiki]


EUROPEAN EXONYMS

Over the course of this research, several names have come up that while associated with these provinces, are associated specifically in the context of being European exonyms. While it may be difficult to enact this universally for all Europeans without changing province base names, it may be prudent to add them for specific countries. That said, these are debatably important in some cases and certainly not a priority, but I wanted to group them all for further reference if they became useful.
667 Canton (Note: Already the present default name - grouped here for convenience)
Canton is a western corruption of the Chinese word Guangdong [English wiki - see section on name]. Portugal correctly has the name Cantáo, and England/Great Britain (or MAYBE all other Europeans) should get the name Canton. If Guangdong is instated as the correct name under Ming control, then Canton should become the exonym under European control, being one of the most well-recognized exonyms in history, even lending its name to the English characterization of the local culture and Chinese dialect Cantonese.

668 Macau (Note: Already the present default name - grouped here for convenience)
Similarly, Macau is a Portugese misnomer allegedly derived from the name of a local temple. While the Chinese name of Macau is read as 'Aomen' [english wiki entry on names of Macau], Macau is undoubtedly the name by which most refer to the area in the present day and if the default name is changed, this should certainly be retained as an iconic exonym.

703 Jehol "Chengde"
Per the wikipedia article, this province was well known under the name Jehol via a French translation of Chengde. Will propose renaming to Jehol if under European control (or at least, French). Famous residence of Qing dynasty.

738 Provintia "Sakam"
Fort and surrounding city founded by the dutch to strengthen their local holdings. [wikipedia] There's also an argument for naming it Zeelandia - see [Dutch Formosa] though I feel this might be confusing for the various exonyms for Danish Sealand.

1821 Zaiton "Quanzhou"
Quanzhou is well documented as having various exonyms, but at gamestart, Zaiton, its arabic name, was the one known to travellers like Marco Polo (see names.) Alternatively, one could give the name Chincheo for Spanish cultures, or even Chinchew generally for europeans, with Zaiton reserved for Arabic cultures, but Zaiton is a common enough exonym for the time as to seem appropriate.

2113 Port Arthur "Gaizhou"
Currently the exonym Port-Artur is given to East Slavic cultures for province 726 - Shenyang. While this may have at one time been vaguely accurate, this is no longer the correct province. This is most likely a result of the addition or redrawing of provinces overtime. (It doesn't even have a port anymore, so this is particularly silly.) The dynamic name should be removed from 726 and given to 2113 instead. Additionally, one could consider using the name Port Arthur instead of Port Artur as this is a much better known exonym and none of the English cultures seem to have an equivalent, but Port-Artur is fine as well. [History of Kwantung Leased Territory]

2154 Santisima Trinidad "Kelang"
Spanish settlement on North Taiwan Keelung area. [wiki] Alternate argument for naming it San Salvador, though that connotes a more South American feeling. Also arguable that this exonym should be specific to Spainish cultures.

2155 Formosa "Middag"
While the incredibly famous exonym Formosa (referring to Taiwan) doesn't explicitly refer to this area, [wiki], it was made the capital of the Taiwan province by the Qing, and referred to as central to Formosa with names like 'the Kyoto of Formosa' for its central nature, and the Chinese names for these places literally mean 'middle of Taiwan'. That said, this is a debatable inclusion.

2741 Quelpart "Jeju"
Historically significant, once home to a separate polity, the Tanma. Per wikipedia, was known as Quelpart before Japanese occupation. As the name referred to the Dutch ship who discovered it, could also just be given to Dutch cultures. Could arguably also be named Tanma while not under Korean, Japanese, or Chinese control - M&T even gives a unique tag to this area under that name, though in 1444, that might be going a bit far.

4182 Dejima "Hizen"
The name of the only port which received Westerners legally in Japan for centuries [wiki] - could also be stylized as Desima or Deshima. Could also be specifically for Dutch cultures as they were the ones primarily trading there.

TAG LIST
The following is a list of all splinter tags which should receive the Chinese dynamic nameset, as there are several splinter states which should receive it, none of which are present at gamestart, but many of which will come to exist through a Mingsplosion:

JIN - Jin
YAN - Yan
QIC - Qi
QIN - Qin
CSH - Shun
CXI - Xi
TNG - Tang
CHC - Chu
LNG - Liang
WUU - Wu
MIN - Min
YUE - Yue
CMI - Miao NOTE: There's an argument that this is not really a Chinese culture and shouldn't inherit the Chinese names, (see Miao People) - this is semi-supported by how Miao has its own national ideas and historically rebelled against the Ming and the Qing multiple times throughout the timeframe of EU4.
SHU - Shu
NNG - Ning
HUA - Huai
CZH - Zhou (Does not have cores at gamestart but present in later dates, easy to miss)
LFA - Lanfang (Technically not in China, but Chinese culture - technically Hakka, easy to miss)

There are also a few Chinese splinter tags which are more definitively NOT Chinese culturally, and so giving them the Chinese names might be viewed as controversial, nonetheless, they are splinter states, so including here for convenience:

CMI - Miao NOTE: Also listed above; there's an argument that this is not really a Chinese culture and shouldn't inherit the Chinese names, (see Miao People) - this is semi-supported by how Miao has its own national ideas and historically rebelled against the Ming and the Qing multiple times throughout the timeframe of EU4.
CGS - Changsheng (Zhuang culture, Thai group)
CYI - Yi (Yi culture, Tibetan group)
CDL - Dali (Bai culture, Tibetan group)

Thank you for taking the time to read through this - any suggestions welcome - hope this can assist Jake, Trin and the others in making East Asia even more rewarding to play through in EU4!

EDIT 1: Added some names and citations for Japanese Culture names of Korean provinces, via Eastern Tiger.

EDIT 2: Changes to Chinese and some Japanese names via Warial, and removed 'need for verification' tags.

EDIT 3: Added all Japanese names for provinces in Korea, changed them to exclude long vowels and added a separate section for exonyms.

Edit 4: Added all Chinese names for provinces in Korea.

Edit 5: Added some Japanese names for Pacific islands, and Korean names for the Liaodong peninsula, for which it has missions to take. Changed name for middag in Chinese and Japanese to Taichung and Taichu. New name for Chinese 1013 to account for naming conflicts if using the name Qingzhou.

Edit 6: Added dynamic Japanese names for the Fuzhou and Zhejiang areas, which they get claims on via mission, and Chinese names for Hue and Haiphong, which they get claims on likewise. Informally closing the list to new province additions, as we have now covered all the countries' missions and several culturally important cities.

Edit 7: A few new Qing names, Japanese dynamic name for Gaizhou, suggestion to CHANGE the dynamic province name for Port-Artur (east slavic cultures) to Gaizhou from Shenyang, and added Chinese name for Pontiniak, needed for Lanfang.

Edit 8: Solved Haeju and Jeonju Chinese dynamic name conflicts. Added list of Chinese splinter tags for developer convenience. Added names for Luoyang, the 4th ancient Chinese capital, to Japanese and Korean lists.

Edit 9 CLOSED TO FURTHER ADDITIONS so devs can hopefully integrate. A special thanks to the members who've contributed their time and research to making the list accurate, particularly @Warial @EasternTiger, and everyone who read and agreed with the post so that the devs viewed it in the first place!

EDIT 10: Reopened in concert with the 1.29 Manchuria patch in the hopes of adjusting any names for new provinces and any appropriate changes to Manchurian provinces in general.
 
Last edited:

EasternTiger

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For Japanese dynamic province names in Korea, I feel that it would be easy to simply use the Japanese names that were used during the Japanese occupation. I've found some 1945 Ameircan maps of Japan and Korea, that has place names in Japanese. While Japan annexed Korea in 1910, 89 years after the end of EU4, most of these names derive from the Chinese characters and would still make sense in the EU4 time period.

Map of Japan and Korea
1945 CIA Map of Korea
1945 American Geographical Society Map (Japanese names of several major cities)
1945 OSS map of Korean railroads and roads

732 = Hamheung "Kankō"

733 = Hwangju "Kōshū"

734 = Wonju "Genshū"

735 = Hanseong "Keijō"
Another name for Hanseong, was Gyeongseong, (京城), meaning capital city, which in Japanese, translated to Keijo. This is not to be confused with the in-game province Gyeongseong, which refers to Gyeongseong County, which has different characters (鏡城).

736 = Sangju "Shōshū"

737 = Jeonju "Zenshū"

1013 = Cheongju "Seishū"

1845 - Pyeongyang "Heijō"

2694 = Gangneung "Kōryō"

2741 = Jeju "Saishū"

2743 = Gyeongseong/Kyongsong "Kyōjō"

2745 = Gyeongju "Keishū"

4227 = Jinju "Shinshū"

4228 = Naju "Rashū"

4229 = Chungju "Chūshū"

4230 = Suwon "Suigen"

4231 = Haeju "Kaishū"

4232 = Ganggye "Kōkai"
 

Densetsu VII

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For Japanese dynamic province names in Korea, I feel that it would be easy to simply use the Japanese names that were used during the Japanese occupation. I've found some 1945 Ameircan maps of Japan and Korea, that has place names in Japanese. While Japan annexed Korea in 1910, 89 years after the end of EU4, most of these names derive from the Chinese characters and would still make sense in the EU4 time period.

Map of Japan and Korea
1945 CIA Map of Korea
1945 American Geographical Society Map (Japanese names of several major cities)
1945 OSS map of Korean railroads and roads

732 = Hamheung "Kankō"

733 = Hwangju "Kōshū"

734 = Wonju "Genshū"

735 = Hanseong "Keijō"
Another name for Hanseong, was Gyeongseong, (京城), meaning capital city, which in Japanese, translated to Keijo. This is not to be confused with the in-game province Gyeongseong, which refers to Gyeongseong County, which has different characters (鏡城).

736 = Sangju "Shōshū"

737 = Jeonju "Zenshū"

1013 = Cheongju "Seishū"

1845 - Pyeongyang "Heijō"

2694 = Gangneung "Kōryō"

2741 = Jeju "Saishū"

2743 = Gyeongseong/Kyongsong "Kyōjō"

2745 = Gyeongju "Keishū"

4227 = Jinju "Shinshū"

4228 = Naju "Rashū"

4229 = Chungju "Chūshū"

4230 = Suwon "Suigen"

4231 = Haeju "Kaishū"

4232 = Ganggye "Kōkai"

Love the maps - great resource!

Have changed Suwon's name in response to this. Heijo stays the same as we're just arguing english naming conventions there.

Regarding 735 - I think this is a little contentious, as the map notes, Keijo is basically a name for Seoul, and the province default name is Hanseong, not Seoul. While they both refer to the same city, throughout the Joseon era (at game start in 1444 and throughout the Imjin Wars of the late 1500s), Hangseong would be the correct name, and the Japanese translation of that clearly should be Kanjou. That said, the English article for Seoul does mention both the Japanese renaming to Keijo, and the reasoning behind it, so there is certainly some logic in that even if it's not as time appropriate. Will await a third opinion or additional logical argument - definitely open to changing this one.

There's a certain argument that some of these provinces are a bit mundane (i.e. if we're going to rename every province, we'd want to do that for China as well, and other nations don't typically have renamed versions of every province around them; see also the point about renaming important provinces as landmarks.) That said, will at least add Naju to Rashu (4228) as this represented a major stronghold for Korean resistance to Japanese occupation in the Imjin wars. Open to adding all the others pending arguments for their significance.

Thanks so much for the suggestions!
 

Warial

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667 Goutou "Canton"
It's こうとう, Koutou.
679 Seitou "Chengdu"
It's せいと, Seito, with short /o/.
700 Saian "Xian"
It's せいあん, Sei'an.
703 Shotoku "Chengde"
If you keep long-short vowel distinction (unlike Paradox), then it should be しょうとく Shoutoku.
1822 Soshu "Suzhou
Again, 州 has a long vowel. そしゅう Soshuu.
1833 Kitsuan "Ji'an'
Just a nitpick. How is it non-standard?
1015 Liu Qiu "Ryukyu"
Don't split it into two words. It's not phonetic, Ryukyu took a name of a kingdom which appeared often in Chinese history, but by most scholars is considered to orginally refer to some polity on Taiwan.
1020 Pingan "Kyoto"
Use apostrophes before a final syllable that begins with a vowel. So, Ping'an.
1021 Shejin "Settsu"
'need verification' - Large port city - modern Osaka - highly important
Correct.
1028 Wucang "Musashi"
'need verification' - modern Tokyo - highly important area.
Correct.
1832 Dahe "Yamato"
Corect.
2154 Taipeh "Kelang"
I see what you did here, but personally I would choose to keep a unified romanisation system. Juse a small note.
4182 Feiqian "Hizen"
'need verification' - Location of Nagasaki - important interaction with Europeans throughout history
Correct
4224 Xiangmo "Sagami"
'need verification' - historical capital (Kamakura)
Correct
613 = "Dongguan" Dong Kinh
The name comes from the period of Ming occupation. Dongguan 东关 was the name of the prefectural capital, the prefecture name was Jiazhou 交州.
616 = "Yuebei" Cao Bang
It's not any appelation used during the era. Cao Bang is 高平, so Gaoping would be the Mandarin reading.
732 = "Xianjin" Hamheung
Incorrect. Hamheung is 咸兴 Xianxing. I guess the orginal intent was the Mandarin pronunciation of Hamgyeong 咸境, but that would be Xianjing.
733 = "Huanghai" Hwangju
黄海 transcribes the name of Hwanghae prefecture, which contains both Hwangju (黄州) and Haeju (海州). It's better to use just Huangzhou.
734 = "Jiangyuan" Wonju
江源 transcribes the name of Gangwon prefecture,which contains both Wonju (源州) and Gangneung (江陵). Wonju itself would be Yuanzhou.
736 = "Qingshang" Sangju
庆尚 transribes the name of Gyeongsang prefecture, which contains Sangju (尚州), Daegu (大邱) and Gyeongju (庆州). Only Sangju would be Shangzhou.
737 = "Quanluo" Jeonju
全罗 transcribes the name of Jeolla prefecture, which contains both Jeonju (全州) and Naju (罗州), Only Jeonju would be Quanzhou.
1013 = "Zhongqing" Cheongju
忠清 transcribes the name of Chungcheong prefecture, which contains both Cheongju (清州) and Chungju (忠州). Only Cheongju would be Qingzhou.
1016 = "Yi'an" Ha Tinh
During 4th domination of Vietnam Ha Tinh was known as Xinping (新平) prefecture.
703 Jehol "Chengde"
Jehol, or rather Khalughun Gol is a Mongolian name. In 1723 a Rehe 热河 subprefecture was established there. Then in 1733 it was renamed to Chengde 承德. Never before was Chengde used as a toponym in this area, so it's a perfectly good Qing name. If you want something in Manchu, then Erdemu Be Aliha should be your choice.
 
Last edited:

pingouin2ter

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I have not much to contribute but I love it. Dynamic province names are awesome and I hope those will make it in game!
 

Densetsu VII

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It's こうとう, Koutou.

It's せいと, Seito, with short /o/.

It's せいあん, Sei'an.

If you keep long-short vowel distinction (unlike Paradox), then it should be しょうとく Shoutoku.

Again, 州 has a long vowel. そしゅう Soshuu.

Just a nitpick. How is it non-standard?

Don't split it into two words. It's not phonetic, Ryukyu took a name of a kingdom which appeared often in Chinese history, but by most scholars is considered to orginally refer to some polity on Taiwan.

Use apostrophes before a final syllable that begins with a vowel. So, Ping'an.

Corect.

I see what you did here, but personally I would choose to keep a unified romanisation system. Juse a small note.

Correct

The name comes from the period of Ming occupation. Dongguan 东关 was the name of the prefectural capital, the prefecture name was Jiazhou 交州.

It's not any appelation used during the era. Cao Bang is 高平, so Gaoping would be the Mandarin reading.

Incorrect. Hamheung is 咸兴 Xianxing. I guess the orginal intent was the Mandarin pronunciation of Hamgyeong 咸境, but that would be Xianjing.

黄海 transcribes the name of Hwanghae prefecture, which contains both Hwangju (黄州) and Haeju (海州). It's better to use just Huangzhou.

江源 transcribes the name of Gangwon prefecture,which contains both Wonju (源州) and Gangneung (江陵). Wonju itself would be Yuanzhou.

庆尚 transribes the name of Gyeongsang prefecture, which contains Sangju (尚州), Daegu (大邱) and Gyeongju (庆州). Only Sangju would be Shangzhou.

全罗 transcribes the name of Jeolla prefecture, which contains both Jeonju (全州) and Naju (罗州), Only Jeonju would be Quanzhou.

忠清 transcribes the name of Chungcheong prefecture, which contains both Cheongju (清州) and Chungju (忠州). Only Cheongju would be Qingzhou.

During 4th domination of Vietnam Ha Tinh was known as Xinping (新平) prefecture.

Jehol, or rather Khalughun Gol is a Mongolian name. In 1723 a Rehe 热河 subprefecture was established there. Then in 1733 it was renamed to Chengde 承德. Never before was Chengde used as a toponym in this area, so it's a perfectly good Qing name. If you want something in Manchu, then Erdemu Be Aliha should be your choice.
Thanks so much for the detailed suggestions, particularly for the Chinese names as well!

Corrected Koutou and Seito, per your suggestion - my mistakes.

Honestly, I want this to be included in the base game, meaning that if Paradox doesn't acknowledge the distinction, I don't want to acknowledge it either, particularly when it results in double vowels like Shoshuu which just seem like typos to the uninitiated. Would be great if a developer with any access to quality standards could weigh in on this. That said, consistency is important and I do use the long-vowels for most of these names, so will adjust Soshuu and Shouto for now.

Regarding Taipeh, that comes from the Wikipedia page, which appears to make a distinction between Taipeh and Taipei - I wasn't sure if this was just the wade giles or if it actually referred to a different polity of some kind. If it IS just wade giles, then yes, that's weird and I will change it to just BE Taipei. If it's a Qing era name (ie written differently) then Taipeh would be more appropriate.

By non-standard, all I meant was that it appeared to be a less common on-reading. Upon further research, I confirm, as you say, that this isn't the case. Removed that comment.

The Chinese names are legacy via paradox, so I had no input on them. Clearly some are a bit outdated. I sort of get the temptation to keep the name Dongguan, particularly if the prefecture (under Vietnam) was not named Dong Kinh, as prefectures don't always take their names from their literal historical counterparts (as paradox adds more prefectures for gameplay reasons, and sometimes uses city names or population names). Will change it for now, but if someone with Vietnamese historical background can verify that Dong Kinh was NEVER the name of the prefecture and always the city, we should probably keep Dongguan as the province name for China.

Do we know what the original intention was with the word Yuebei? It's possible it used to refer to a different province but it'd be great to know how it got in the system. Changed for the moment per your suggestion.

Great notes on the old Korea names - this is clearly a problem arising because Korea used to have less, subtly different provinces - I noticed this happened to Pyongyang (which used to be Pyong'an) - which is very convenient as it would otherwise be a homonym for Ping'An in Kyoto.

Interesting notes on Chengde. Your point is definitely taken - there WAS no Chengde before the Qing - but paradox has chosen to make it a province, and english sources still seem very sure about Rehe as an older name for it. Should we use Rehe as the default name (under Ming Control) then? Perhaps leave Jehol as a name for a westerner conquering the province a-la suggestion for Guangdong/Canton? Leaving this entry the same until we have further discussion regarding a name change of some kind.

Thank you so much for your input!
 

Warial

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Regarding Taipeh, that comes from the Wikipedia page, which appears to make a distinction between Taipeh and Taipei - I wasn't sure if this was just the wade giles or if it actually referred to a different polity of some kind. If it IS just wade giles, then yes, that's weird and I will change it to just BE Taipei. If it's a Qing era name (ie written differently) then Taipeh would be more appropriate.
Taipeh is Wade-Giles, pinyin would be Taipei. The characters didn't change.

The Chinese names are legacy via paradox, so I had no input on them. Clearly some are a bit outdated. I sort of get the temptation to keep the name Dongguan, particularly if the prefecture (under Vietnam) was not named Dong Kinh, as prefectures don't always take their names from their literal historical counterparts (as paradox adds more prefectures for gameplay reasons, and sometimes uses city names or population names). Will change it for now, but if someone with Vietnamese historical background can verify that Dong Kinh was NEVER the name of the prefecture and always the city, we should probably keep Dongguan as the province name for China.
Dong Kinh and Dongguan are not the same. The former is written the same as Tokyo 東京, Dongguan is 東関. Dong Kinh is fine to be used as the name, but Dongguan was always just a city. Also, sorry I made a typo myself. It should be Jiaozhou, not Jiazhou.

Do we know what the original intention was with the word Yuebei? It's possible it used to refer to a different province but it'd be great to know how it got in the system. Changed for the moment per your suggestion.
My guess it's 越北, which just meants Northern Vietnam.

Interesting notes on Chengde. Your point is definitely taken - there WAS no Chengde before the Qing - but paradox has chosen to make it a province, and english sources still seem very sure about Rehe as an older name for it. Should we use Rehe as the default name (under Ming Control) then? Perhaps leave Jehol as a name for a westerner conquering the province a-la suggestion for Guangdong/Canton? Leaving this entry the same until we have further discussion regarding a name change of some kind.
Personally I would change it to Mongol and have Chengde appear when Qing or Chinese tag conquers it.
 

Densetsu VII

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Taipeh is Wade-Giles, pinyin would be Taipei. The characters didn't change.


Dong Kinh and Dongguan are not the same. The former is written the same as Tokyo 東京, Dongguan is 東関. Dong Kinh is fine to be used as the name, but Dongguan was always just a city. Also, sorry I made a typo myself. It should be Jiaozhou, not Jiazhou.


My guess it's 越北, which just meants Northern Vietnam.


Personally I would change it to Mongol and have Chengde appear when Qing or Chinese tag conquers it.
Thanks Wikipedia /s .. will change Taipeh to Taipei.

I think the question here is nominally - did the Vietnamese use Dong Kinh to refer to the province as well as the city? But even if not, I think there's a good logic to use the name Dong Quan. In the wiki article on Hanoi - it mentions the various names, particularly how, yes, the city was renamed to Dong Kinh (東京) after the Ming occupations of the 1420s. But it was called during those same occupations. Considering that we're talking about an alternate history in which the Ming reoccupy land they'd already conquered, I think it's reasonable to assert that they'd revert to the older name. Overall, these names do not just represent translations, but imply something about the conquering that's happened in the real world. Therefore, unless I should use the name Dongguan instead of Dong Quan (assuming Dongguan is Wade Giles), will use Dong Quan as the name, with this explanation.

(For this reason, I think I will take EasternTiger's suggestion and use the Japanese name Keijo for Hanseong instead of Kanjou).

Thanks for the explanation on the old name - will put that in.

If you're suggesting changing the owner at game start to Mongolia, I think that's beyond the pale of our discussion. We don't want to ask Paradox to make changes to the gamestate - just the names. Personally, based on the fact that Chengde's older name Rehe is named after a river [see geography], which would obviously still exist before Chengde did, I'm going to change the suggestion such that the name under Ming control is Rehe and it becomes Chengde under Qing control and Jehol under foreign control. Obviously open to counterarguments, but I think this is the best way to deal with the fact that Chengde the place did exist but Chengde the province arguably didn't at gamestart in 1444.
 

Warial

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Therefore, unless I should use the name Dongguan instead of Dong Quan (assuming Dongguan is Wade Giles), will use Dong Quan as the name, with this explanation.
Dongguan is pinyin. Wade Giles doesn't use voiced consonant letters. Where did Dong Quan come from?
 

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These suggestions seem alright, imo, and they'll be put under consideration. Seems like you're right about the 'chihan' entry stuff, too.
 

Densetsu VII

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These suggestions seem alright, imo, and they'll be put under consideration. Seems like you're right about the 'chihan' entry stuff, too.
Wonderful, thank you so much. Please let me know if there's anything I can do to make the list easier for you to potentially integrate.

In particular, looking at other Japanese provinces, I note that the long u (as in how Suo should technically be Suou) is typically ignored, so I've taken the liberty of changing the Japanese names to ignore the long u sounds. Let me know if you'd like this changed back.

In addition, with the knowledge that my assumption about the ChiHan file was correct, it becomes obvious that the intention of those names had been to rename the entire Korean peninsula, as Korea originally had only 8 provinces. In the spirit of this, it seems appropriate to overrule my rule of only renaming important provinces, and particularly if @Warial wouldn't find it too much trouble, I'd be happy to add in names for the remaining Korean provinces which now still need dynamic names:

2694 Gangneung = "Jiangling"?

2741 Jeju = "Jizhou"?

2742 Yukjin = ????

2743 Gyeongseong = ????

2744 Nyeongbyeon = Ningbian?

2745 Gyeongju = Qingzhou?? NAMING CONFLICT WITH CHINESE NAME FOR 1013? Maybe a reason to reinstate the Zhongqing name somewhere?

4227 Jinju = Jinzhou?

4229 Chungju = Zhongzhou?

4230 Suwon = Shuiyuan?

4231 Haeju = Haizhou?

4232 Ganggye = Jiangjie?

With that in mind, it seems appropriate to do the same for Japan, particularly since we do have such a reliable resource (in the form of @EasternTiger 's maps) so I'll add in his suggestions for all Japanese provinces.

Finally, during research, a few interesting footnotes come in the form of exonyms for various areas as with Canton and Macau. While not as essential, I decided to make a new section for them just in case it proves useful.

All this said, @Ofaloaf, looking this deep into things like the culture files is actually a first for me, in any game, and as a modder yourself, I'm sure you appreciate how much of a change this is for me. I'm really glad this got looked at and hope it can be of assistance for the team!
 
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Warial

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In addition, with the knowledge that my assumption about the ChiHan file was correct, it becomes obvious that the intention of those names had been to rename the entire Korean peninsula, as Korea originally had only 8 provinces. In the spirit of this, it seems appropriate to overrule my rule of only renaming important provinces, and particularly if @Warial wouldn't find it too much trouble, I'd be happy to add in names for the remaining Korean provinces which now still need dynamic names:
Why I would find it troublesome? In fact for M&T I did add Chinese, Japanese, Korean, and Vietnamese for all of Ming China, Japan, Korea, and Vietnam long time ago.
 

Densetsu VII

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Why I would find it troublesome? In fact for M&T I did add Chinese, Japanese, Korean, and Vietnamese for all of Ming China, Japan, Korea, and Vietnam long time ago.
I didn't want to sound like I was entitled to your time ~ I would greatly appreciate help with the list for Chinese province names for the rest of Korea! (Also I didn't want to assume you were THAT Warial - though now I read your signature and it makes sense - cheers for your good work!)
 

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Was able to lookup most every Chinese name except for 2742 Yukjin and 2743 Gyeongsong, though they all need verification. Furthermore, the name for 2745 Gyeongju is the same as the suggested name for 1013 Cheongju (though the Chinese characters are obviously different - 淸 vs 慶, they both appear to be written in English as Qingzhou. Would definitely defer to an expert to suggest some kind of replacement name for one of them, perhaps based on a different landmark in the same general area, or some other way to differentiate the two in English.
 

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Yukjin literally means six garrisons, referring to the border region between Joseon and the Jurchen tribes. (육진 in Hangeul; 六鎭 in Hanja). It would not make sense for any other nation to literally translate the meaning of Yukjin.
 

Densetsu VII

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Yukjin literally means six garrisons, referring to the border region between Joseon and the Jurchen tribes. (육진 in Hangeul; 六鎭 in Hanja). It would not make sense for any other nation to literally translate the meaning of Yukjin.
A fair point, definitely explaining why those names are hard to look up. While I feel like it's not beyond comprehension for an invading force to adopt a local name, do we have an alternate name for those areas, like a name based on another geographic feature for the Chinese or Japanese dynamic provinces? Or are you saying that area just shouldn't have a dynamic province name at all?
 

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It would be best to find another geographical feature for Yukjin, perhaps the Tumen River? or maybe Chongjin (a city)? The border region wasn't really that developed.

For Gyeongseong, the reason it was hard for you to find it is that it is commonly known by McCune–Reischauer romanization as it's under control of the DPRK, known as Kyongsong. ( 鏡城 in Hanja and 경성 in Hangeul). In Japanese, it was known as Kyojo. The Chinese romanization seems to be Jincheng, although I'm not too sure about that.
 

Warial

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Was able to lookup most every Chinese name except for 2742 Yukjin and 2743 Gyeongsong, though they all need verification. Furthermore, the name for 2745 Gyeongju is the same as the suggested name for 1013 Cheongju (though the Chinese characters are obviously different - 淸 vs 慶, they both appear to be written in English as Qingzhou. Would definitely defer to an expert to suggest some kind of replacement name for one of them, perhaps based on a different landmark in the same general area, or some other way to differentiate the two in English.
An older name of Gyeongju is Gyerim (鷄林), it is also the name of Tang administration unit nominally created in the area. In Chinese it would be Jilin (is there currently a province in Manchuria called Jilin? I can't check right now). Alternatively, we could write 慶州 Qìngzhou, with a tone mark.
The Chinese romanization seems to be Jincheng, although I'm not too sure about that.
Jingcheng.

Also in Yuan times Gilju 吉州, a city also belonging to this province was known as Haiyang 海阳.

As for Yukjin, the 6 prefectures in question are: Zhongcheng (鍾城), Wencheng(穩城), Huining(會寧), Qingyuan(慶源), Qingxing (慶興), and Funing(富寧). You can pick one you fancy.
 

Densetsu VII

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An older name of Gyeongju is Gyerim (鷄林), it is also the name of Tang administration unit nominally created in the area. In Chinese it would be Jilin (is there currently a province in Manchuria called Jilin? I can't check right now). Alternatively, we could write 慶州 Qìngzhou, with a tone mark.

Jingcheng.

Also in Yuan times Gilju 吉州, a city also belonging to this province was known as Haiyang 海阳.

As for Yukjin, the 6 prefectures in question are: Zhongcheng (鍾城), Wencheng(穩城), Huining(會寧), Qingyuan(慶源), Qingxing (慶興), and Funing(富寧). You can pick one you fancy.
Will add Jingcheng.

Love the tone mark idea - I think that changes the least while avoiding naming conflicts. Will put that in for now with a note that it could be replaced with Jilin (no such province in Manchuria as far as I could verify - only a Girin). That said, Jilin in english searches is so far removed from Gyerim (ie you'd almost never find it on researching the name if you were looking for it) that I feel like it's a tenuous relation, so will recommend use of Qìngzhou for 2745 慶州.

Since Funing has an english correspondent in the Wiki article for Puryong county, will use that one for now, pending a better suggestion, ie from @EasternTiger . Accordingly, will add the Japanese translation Funei.

Assuming that the other names check out, as I just looked them up myself via dictionary:

2694 Gangneung = "Jiangling"?

2744 Nyeongbyeon = Ningbian?

4227 Jinju = Jinzhou?

4229 Chungju = Zhongzhou?

4230 Suwon = Shuiyuan?

4231 Haeju = Haizhou?

4232 Ganggye = Jiangjie?