easiest nation to form Italy with?
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I find it a pity that Tuscany is a general country (for what concerns the national ideas, for example), while it had a huge importance at least in the first century covered by the game.
I don't really understand why they personalized Milan and not Tuscany too.
I don't really understand why they personalized Milan and not Tuscany too.
No but you need it to fight France.
When you're at war with France you need to be able to afford more units than your limit to even survive and hope your allies help you out. Venice, Treviso and Verona are very good money.
Haven't tried forming it yet but AI Tuscany always blobs in about 95% of the games I've played.
In general though, Naples seems incredibly weak and is in need of a significant buff imo. I guess that's probably because half their provinces are 1 base tax...
In general though, Naples seems incredibly weak and is in need of a significant buff imo. I guess that's probably because half their provinces are 1 base tax...
Milan probably is easier, as they start with one of the needed provinces, but I found it pretty easy with Savoy. Savoy starts bigger than anyone around them except France/Burgundy (but that's not where you're expanding anyways), and if you ally with Austria early, they will protect you and scare off the French for a while.
Plus, Savoy's natural diplomatic ability due to their national ideas is very helpful, as it means you can easily maintain lots of defensive alliances to protect against the French and Burgundians initially, and later the Austrians. This is something to remember - the Austrians are your best friend in the early game, but once you get powerful enough (have most of Northern Italy) they start to get hostile towards you, and for this reason, I find that Castile/Spain makes the best long-term ally. Try to get on their good side early, which should be pretty easy as they view you as a natural ally against France, and even once both of you are powerful, they will still like you as they don't border you.
Plus, Savoy's natural diplomatic ability due to their national ideas is very helpful, as it means you can easily maintain lots of defensive alliances to protect against the French and Burgundians initially, and later the Austrians. This is something to remember - the Austrians are your best friend in the early game, but once you get powerful enough (have most of Northern Italy) they start to get hostile towards you, and for this reason, I find that Castile/Spain makes the best long-term ally. Try to get on their good side early, which should be pretty easy as they view you as a natural ally against France, and even once both of you are powerful, they will still like you as they don't border you.
Savoy is quite good and so is Milan, as unlike republics they can do PUs from the start if lucky. Naples has to get rid of their PU first.
He never said you need them to form italy, you put words in his mouth. They are obviously provinces you want to take anyway.
That's not what I'm saying: I'm saying that those three provinces are worth as much as any other high income province surrounding Piemonte or Lumbardy.
You don't *need* them.
Screw Italy, playing the Papacy should be more fun and they get more military bonuses as well!
What I meant is that you can disregard Venice as much as any other non-required state if your aim is to form Italy.
Are you trying to get me to say something? Just tell me what to say and I'll write it.
Well why did you reply to his post which only mentioned venice as a rival in the northern italian peninsula to say that you don't need venice to form italy? If you weren't replying to his post to correct him what was the purpose? No one even insinuated that you need venice yet you felt the need to inform them.
Regardless, Venice DOES become a claim that ITALY wants once you've formed it. You can't compared St. Gallen, Bern and Zürich to Venice, Treviso and Verona for two simple reasons:
1. They're much farther away and you have to f___ with Austria to get them.
2. The three italian provinces have MUCH more trade power. They're about 2-3 ducats a month in trade alone.
1. They're much farther away and you have to f___ with Austria to get them.
2. The three italian provinces have MUCH more trade power. They're about 2-3 ducats a month in trade alone.
Look I've carefully considered all options and, as evidenced by how well it's going, I definitely made the right choices. So unless you actually played this situation you should probably just take your theories to your own games.
What I meant is that you can just ignore Venice, since you don't need it, it doesn't even have to be a rival. You can just ignore it, it's not like it's Austria or France. Why so aggressive?
You need to calm down.
Guys let's not get sidetracked. This thread is about Italy, not about fighting! Unless it's like a war. In the game. In history.
I'd rather have Venice as a vassal as Italy so I can focus on the New World and India while it dominates the Med for me.