Earn the Dragon Throne in Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven

Glacierfairy

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For those who are interested, the narration in the trailer is derived from two classical poems, one Chinese and one Japanese. The Chinese poem is Sòng Yǒurén (送友人, Sending off a Friend) by the Tang dynasty poet Li Bai, and the Japanese poem is Minase Sangin Hyakuin (水無瀬三吟百韻, A Poem of One Hundred Links by Three Poets at Minase), by Sōgi, Shōhaku and Sōchō.
 

bitmapmedivh

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That would be a poor reason; loading screens should be based on importance and representativity---not be subjected to gender quotas.

I don't think that's the reason though, since so far we've seen no sign of them trying to balance the genders. And there have been plenty of times in the past where they easily could have chosen females. Most recently in the 1.19 patch where instead of Christian IV they could have used Margrethe I, who was the one establishing the Kalmar Union (yes she's slightly outside the time frame, but I don't think that'd matter too much).

You have more faith in my countrymen than I do. I'd very much expect Stockholmers to pick such a poor reason, all the while congratulating themselves as being "brave".
 

jmuf

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Conquest dynasties are an accepted part of the traditional Chinese historiography though. Both the Yuan and indeed the Qing were outsiders who conquered China and claimed the Mandate. Before them the Jurchens and the Khitan did the same thing. During the late 1500s Japan launched an invasion of Korea which was meant as a launching point to conquer China. If they had come at a more opportune time, like the Manchus, perhaps they could have succeeded.
Yes correct, however I doubt that they would really embrace the Mandate, as the Japanese, Indians, etc, had different beliefs through. Then I also doubt the Chinese would really consider a nation, such as Dai Nam, as the true China, considering that they would have almost no Chinese people, unless of course they took Chinese land, but still. I am not sure how thier culture would mix with China. My suggestion would be to in order to get the CB to take it, you must have a certain part of your country population Chinese. Through, that is what makes most sense to me, but perhaps I will just never understand the Chinese thought process.
 
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Trin Tragula

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As previously stated a country that has claimed the mandate while not actually encompassing the Chinese will soon face a nasty disaster...

The fine thing with the mandate system IMO is that it allows us to look at just _how_ legitimate the empire is. Someone who takes the title but cannot live up to it will be facing problems (and may end up losing it again).
 

Mantis42

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Yes correct, however I doubt that they would really embrace the Mandate, as the Japanese, Indians, etc, had different beliefs through. Then I also doubt the Chinese would really consider a nation, such as Dai Nam, as the true China, considering that they would have almost no Chinese people, unless of course they took Chinese land, but still. I am not sure how thier culture would mix with China. My suggestion would be to in order to get the CB to take it, you must have a certain part of your country population Chinese. Through, that is what makes most sense to me, but perhaps I will just never understand the Chinese thought process.

Well it might be nice if they made it so you had to conquer one of China's historic capitals (Beijing, Nanjing, Luoyang, Kaifeng, Hangzhou, Chang'an, etc) before you could claim the throne. That being said, I guess from a gameplay standpoint the idea is to make it easier to trigger a Mingsplosion first so conquest is easier? I thought it would be better if maybe it would be done in two wars - one to remove the Mandate from the existing holder and another to claim it once you have enough territory, but probably they don't want the title to lie vacant unless it is actually destroyed, much like the HRE.

As for whether or not the Han would accept a nonChinese emperor, well, in real life Manchus (despite being in the Chinese culture group for gameplay reasons) weren't seen as Chinese, having their own customs, language, religion, etc. They had, at best, 1% of the population of the Han at best. And they were resisted, violently. Holdouts by Ming loyalists continued fighting for decades. Secret societies dedicated to ending Manchu rule flourished until the dynasty collapsed.

At the same time, however, they consciously adopted the Chinese model of government. They created a Chinese dynastic name (the Qing), they more or less continued the bureaucracy, they viewed themselves as part of the continuum of Chinese history, they set up a tribute system sphere of influence and so on. Kublai Khan did the same thing when he conquered the Song centuries earlier. Before them, when the Jurchens invaded the north they called themselves the Jin and as a part of a peace treaty forced the southern Song (the proper Han Chinese empire) to pay homage to their Emperor and to refer to him as "elder brother" or some such, establishing dominance. So I don't think grabbing the Mandate necessarily models being legitimized within the eyes of the average person who might hate the barbarian invaders, but as the rulers using established historical norms for prestige purposes, as well as grabbing the reigns of the central state, which are handy no matter who you are.

BTW, the Dharmic religions of India aren't considered "East Asian" but are their own religious group, and thus cannot claim the Mandate if I understand the rules correctly. The player can easily game this by switching to Buddhism.
 

zhpzhp

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As a Chinese, I have to say it's really really wired for you to choose this Chinese poem. First, the poem's title is "送友人", means sending friend off. This poem shows that the author is not willing to say goodbye to his friend. I think this poem has nothing to with "The Mandate of Heaven". Second, you pick part of the poem, the whole poem is:
青山横北郭,白水绕东城。
此地一为别,孤蓬万里征。
浮云游子意,落日故人情。
挥手自兹去,
萧萧班马鸣。
each line is a full sentence. However, what you picked is the middle of the poem(red part) and it's two halves of sentences and one full sentence. It totally makes no sense.

And the last sentence of the trailer, the English subtitles is "For The Mandate of Heaven". I think "The Mandate of Heaven" is from Chinese word "天命", but instead of using this word directly, you used "响应神圣的号令" (respond to the holy call), it means different thing and people won't use this sentence. However, in the Japanese audio, you used the word "天命". I don't understand why you made this choice.
 

luanmameili[LM]

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As a Chinese, I have to say it's really really wired for you to choose this Chinese poem. First, the poem's title is "送友人", means sending friend off. This poem shows that the author is not willing to say goodbye to his friend. I think this poem has nothing to with "The Mandate of Heaven". Second, you pick part of the poem, the whole poem is:
青山横北郭,白水绕东城。
此地一为别,孤蓬万里征。
浮云游子意,落日故人情。
挥手自兹去,
萧萧班马鸣。
each line is a full sentence. However, what you picked is the middle of the poem(red part) and it's two halves of sentences and one full sentence. It totally makes no sense.

And the last sentence of the trailer, the English subtitles is "For The Mandate of Heaven". I think "The Mandate of Heaven" is from Chinese word "天命", but instead of using this word directly, you used "响应神圣的号令" (respond to the holy call), it means different thing and people won't use this sentence. However, in the Japanese audio, you used the word "天命". I don't understand why you made this choice.

Yes, maybe the Japanese poem also has the same mistake(though I don't know what poem it is).

The last sentence of the trailer was spoken in both languages:
是时候,响应神圣的号令,いざ、天命の時が来た。
It's the time to respond to the holy call, for the period of the Mandate of Heaven has come.
(“いざ” is a modal particle, which roughly equivalent to "come on""then""hey" in English or “来吧”“那么”“喂”in Chinese)
 

crowdemon

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Looking forward to it.
 

Mingmung

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I am delighted to see the East Asian Overhaul DLC is coming soon, I can't wait it. While to my honest, I do not think Dowager Xiaozhuang or any female should be the chosen character of this dlc.
In my opinion, I would like to recommand these rulers to be the chosen character :

1, Zhu Yuanzhang/ Zhu Di ( Zhu Yuanzhang can be a 999 ruler in EU4, Zhu Di can be a 235 ruler. While they both are not alive in 1444AD.)
2, Hong Taiji( The real founder of Qing Dynasty.)
3, Yongzheng ( he should be called as the greatest emperor after Zhu Yuanzhang for his historical contribution in Institutional innovation.)

For Qing inherited the institution of Ming's founded by Zhu Yuanzhang, I believe Zhu Yuanzhang should be a background character of Yongzheng or Hong Taiji, regardless whoever earned the Emperor Throne, the institution of Central Empire would follow the old one founded by Zhu Yuanzhang.


This has no use, the artwork has already been made. Just... just stop it.

Don't look a gifthorse in its mouth. Too many people here already do that.


@Developers By the way, those unit-designs look absolutely terrific, can't wait to see all of their renders!
 

powerblo

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I love how EU4 finally got onto Asia, with the Daimyo system, tributaries and all. I understand that South East Asia and Mongolia isn't in this expansion, because it's called Mandate of Heaven, but where is Korea? Don't tell me Korea wasn't influencial enough to deserve flavour, or they were practically Chinese but with Korean culture. I could name some good mechanics to represent the Koreans, and give them a chance to outstand China with "historical" flavour.
 

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I love how EU4 finally got onto Asia, with the Daimyo system, tributaries and all. I understand that South East Asia and Mongolia isn't in this expansion, because it's called Mandate of Heaven, but where is Korea? Don't tell me Korea wasn't influencial enough to deserve flavour, or they were practically Chinese but with Korean culture. I could name some good mechanics to represent the Koreans, and give them a chance to outstand China with "historical" flavour.
Well, they do get the confucian rework too.
 

Mingmung

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For the thirth time or something in this thread; YES, Korea has been updated too: They have six new provinces, a slight Confucianism rework and most likely new events and units too (but that's just speculation based on the announcement-description).

I feel like I'm at my work, patiently trying to teach my students for the 748537474th time that dolphins are not fish.
 

Fish91

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Conquest dynasties are an accepted part of the traditional Chinese historiography though. Both the Yuan and indeed the Qing were outsiders who conquered China and claimed the Mandate. Before them the Jurchens and the Khitan did the same thing. During the late 1500s Japan launched an invasion of Korea which was meant as a launching point to conquer China. If they had come at a more opportune time, like the Manchus, perhaps they could have succeeded.
Japanese will be better, at least they have very similar cultural. Unlike the nineteenth century, at that time they all respect the Chinese culture
 

jmuf

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Well it might be nice if they made it so you had to conquer one of China's historic capitals (Beijing, Nanjing, Luoyang, Kaifeng, Hangzhou, Chang'an, etc) before you could claim the throne. That being said, I guess from a gameplay standpoint the idea is to make it easier to trigger a Mingsplosion first so conquest is easier? I thought it would be better if maybe it would be done in two wars - one to remove the Mandate from the existing holder and another to claim it once you have enough territory, but probably they don't want the title to lie vacant unless it is actually destroyed, much like the HRE.

As for whether or not the Han would accept a nonChinese emperor, well, in real life Manchus (despite being in the Chinese culture group for gameplay reasons) weren't seen as Chinese, having their own customs, language, religion, etc. They had, at best, 1% of the population of the Han at best. And they were resisted, violently. Holdouts by Ming loyalists continued fighting for decades. Secret societies dedicated to ending Manchu rule flourished until the dynasty collapsed.

At the same time, however, they consciously adopted the Chinese model of government. They created a Chinese dynastic name (the Qing), they more or less continued the bureaucracy, they viewed themselves as part of the continuum of Chinese history, they set up a tribute system sphere of influence and so on. Kublai Khan did the same thing when he conquered the Song centuries earlier. Before them, when the Jurchens invaded the north they called themselves the Jin and as a part of a peace treaty forced the southern Song (the proper Han Chinese empire) to pay homage to their Emperor and to refer to him as "elder brother" or some such, establishing dominance. So I don't think grabbing the Mandate necessarily models being legitimized within the eyes of the average person who might hate the barbarian invaders, but as the rulers using established historical norms for prestige purposes, as well as grabbing the reigns of the central state, which are handy no matter who you are.

BTW, the Dharmic religions of India aren't considered "East Asian" but are their own religious group, and thus cannot claim the Mandate if I understand the rules correctly. The player can easily game this by switching to Buddhism.
I understand your point now, and before I didn't know that Dharmic religions weren't considered East Asian. Through thank you for enlightening me on the subject, as before I did not think of the other things you mentioned. As a such I agree with your point. With that the mechanics you had mentioned, made more sense than that, I had mentioned, so with that I wish Paradox would incorporate them in some way.
 

Nicksos

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While I have read most of the DD's, I missed the point where they announced the diplomatic macromenu ( if they did announce it ) , and boy oh boy did it excite me xd Its pretty silly how small things like that can change the game or revive someone's interest in the game :)