Early use of liberum veto and a strange Muscowy game.

[towerbooks3192]

Reinstalled my GG copy of EU3 and I played Muscowy on normal for the first time. Strange things have been happening (had a hard time finding the screenshots folder so no screenies for now). First I got the Ryazan Mission, dived directly for Ryazan and it dragged Georgia in, which dragged Novgorod and later on Ryazan dragged in Tver. I annexed Ryazan while fending off attacks from Tver and Novgorod. Annexed Tver then got in to a regency council after the leader died in a battle. Got a decent general and had to institute liberum veto to get the extra troops (my manpower was drained) and to lower my WE to 2. Managed to get some provinces of Novgorod and now they are experiencing a lot of rebellions and probably some lithuanian peasants crossing over when defeated. While I waited for my badboy to go down and replenish my manpower supply, I got a mission to annex Yaroslavl (just waiting for my regency council to finish) and then Polotsk was formed and Novgorod vanished in to the face of the earth and was replaced by Pskov.

Its one weird Muscowy game and I fear what the future has in store especially with my decision to use Liberum Veto.

 

[Ruanek]

The best time to use Liberum Veto is early on, I think. It can really help Muscowy out during their first war with Novgorod. After that you should be more powerful, and them less powerful, so you won't need it as much.

I think every time I've played Muscowy I've ended up using the Liberum Veto decision during an early war with Novgorod. Aside from the Golden Horde they're your most dangerous early rival, by far.

 

[towerbooks3192]

The best time to use Liberum Veto is early on, I think. It can really help Muscowy out during their first war with Novgorod. After that you should be more powerful, and them less powerful, so you won't need it as much.

I think every time I've played Muscowy I've ended up using the Liberum Veto decision during an early war with Novgorod. Aside from the Golden Horde they're your most dangerous early rival, by far.

I only had one game as Muscowy where I formed Russia and this is my second game where nothing has gone wrong and I successfully improved my nation in one war. I thikn the only other time I used it is on Byzantium though. I am interested to see how things will turn out since its my first time seeing Pskov killing Novgorod and Polotsk forming in front of Lithuania. I have the Teutonic Order as sort of a deterrent in case Poland-Lithuania will try to kill me. For now I am happy with what I did and it really made up my abandoned Byzantium game and being depressed about sucking at this game when EUIV is on its way.

 

[Ruanek]

Yeah, Byzantium can be tricky to start with. I play as them a lot, but I probably failed twice for every time I succeeded as them.

The Teutonic Order is a decent starting ally for Muscowy; you just have to be careful to stop them from taking Russian land (I've often seen then go after Pskov, for instance).

 

[towerbooks3192]

Managed to get Polotsk and Pskov remnants and Novgorod (they somehow came back to life) as vassals and now I got a mission to annex Novgorod. I didn't take a single province since my bb would exceed 30 so I think I will see what I can do. I wanted to eliminate the Teutonic order because they could be annoying at times and I think I could build up and prepare to take some provinces from the horde once they decide to play with me.

 

[Ruanek]

With Muscowy's missions you don't need to accumulate that much BB. They get a mission for almost every starting Russian nation, with a few more for Novgorod. (The only annoying thing with their missions is I think they're missing Pskov, and if the rebels in Lithuania succeed they don't get a mission for that one.) So you can take the provinces the Russian nations start with for very little BB.

 

[towerbooks3192]

With Muscowy's missions you don't need to accumulate that much BB. They get a mission for almost every starting Russian nation, with a few more for Novgorod. (The only annoying thing with their missions is I think they're missing Pskov, and if the rebels in Lithuania succeed they don't get a mission for that one.) So you can take the provinces the Russian nations start with for very little BB.

I think I had too much BB because first I got Ryazan mission but I annexed Tver and huge part of Novgorod in that war but I guess its so worth it and I just cant believe my progress in the early period of the game. I mean after my first war I got Tver, Ryazan and about half of Novgorod!

 

[unmerged(80402)]

If you get mission to annex ryazan you dow it before it gets allies(day 1 dow). Did you do it?

 

[towerbooks3192]

If you get mission to annex ryazan you dow it before it gets allies(day 1 dow). Did you do it?

Yup! But like I said, it still mananged to drag georgia and georgia dragged Novgorod then later on Ryazan managed to drag Tver then I end up Annexing Ryazan, getting Tver and then using Liberum Veto to finish the war and get most part of Novgorod and they had been haunted by rebels ever since.

Also managed to get Novgorod, Polotsk and Pskov as my vassals. I love how Polotsk formed as it would greatly reduce Lithuania's power since it got 4 provinces or something but I still keep an eye on Poland though and getting Teutonic is high priority on my list as they could become thorns on my side.

 

[Praetorian44]

In my current game I also had Pskov replace Novgorod out of nowhere. I found it quite strange. Not sure why it happened.

 

[Gnorf]

In my current game I also had Pskov replace Novgorod out of nowhere. I found it quite strange. Not sure why it happened.

I'm guessing collapsing with Pskovian rebels from TO/Lit.

 

[Ruanek]

If you get mission to annex ryazan you dow it before it gets allies(day 1 dow). Did you do it?

Even if you do that they'll still often get allies to pull in, in my experience. Novgorod likes to interfere with Muscowite expansion.

 

[unmerged(80402)]

Even if you do that they'll still often get allies to pull in, in my experience. Novgorod likes to interfere with Muscowite expansion.

Well : Ally tver and TO day 1 - win.

 

[Ruanek]

Well : Ally tver and TO day 1 - win.

The problem I have with allying the TO (though it often works well) is they like to drag me into wars. They'll often end up fighting Pskov, or Mazovia, or Poland, or Denmark/Norway/Sweden (because they get a mission on the TO), etc.

And Tver isn't a very helpful alliance.

 

[unmerged(80402)]

Well, allying tver effectively prevent it from making other alliances, and actualy, i saw them frequently build 7-10k army, so i wouldn't call them unhelpfull.

 

[glarnak]

meh, i usually follow the missions until it suits me otherwise. which often means that I get a subjugate Tver mission. I like having a little ally running around sieging things for me

 

[Ruanek]

Yeah, I prefer to not ally the Russian states, because I'm just going to vassalize and/or annex them later.

 

[unmerged(80402)]

Ally them. Call them to war against someone they won't join, or someone that they have truce, when you get mission to conquer/vassalize them.

 

[Lord Curlyton]

I've actually never needed to use Liberum Veto as Muscowy, as if you follow the missions, peace out with GH for tribute (they likely will accept), and ally strategically (TO or Sweden/Denmark are good choices), then Novgorod is rather easy to take down. Just be willing to mint early on to support a large enough army. Alternatively, instead of allying with TO or Sweden, just wait until Novgorod gets into a war with one or the other (happens frequently enough). But if you get the right bounce for your missions you'll have a competent Tver as a vassal plus enough bonus cored land that you can solo Novgorod. The tribute to GH will quickly become only a nuisance and as long as you guard against a Western nation blobbing into the horde you can wait, form Russia, and crush GH with higher tech units.

 

[unmerged(80402)]

Librerum Veto is god tier decision : It only cost you 1 centralization move, gives you +10% army tradition, 2 aristocracy, 15k troops, and reduce WE by 8 points, also allows you to get event called "Reform" which gives +1 base tax in 3 random provinces, gives you 3 moves to centralization, and 3 moves to plutocracy - and it just need ruler with at least 6 in each stats(You may be republic, and this makes it super easy to get if you are). Also, it gives you event that spawns randomly 3k troops and reduce your WE by 1 point.

It have also bad event, but i say that it is still good enough to take.