Early strategy talk : A trading Ming?

  • We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

Eldar

Second Lieutenant
109 Badges
Jun 2, 2007
171
1
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Sengoku
  • Supreme Ruler 2020
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Semper Fi
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Cities in Motion
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Magicka
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
I was looking the quill18 videos and I was wondering if there was a way that one can play a trade oriented Ming without being « retard »... I mean. Is playing a trading Ming is like playing a trading Moscowy or a a colonisation... ottoman? I wonder, because I would love to try this contry... but if it's just war war war... I won't enjoy the trading side of the game. If trade is flowing from Asia to Europe... is there a point of playing a trading contry in asia?
 

lemonsquid

General
111 Badges
Jul 27, 2011
1.807
367
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Semper Fi
  • Sengoku
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Steel Division: Normand 44 - Second Wave
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Leviathan: Warships
  • March of the Eagles
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
Hmmm good question... by the looks of it, trade is not as relevant as it will be in the middle-east and europe. Based off assumption, playing in asia is not gonna be worth it if you want a dedicated trade game. Trade appears to just pour out of your land into the hands of those west of you based on the arrows those trade nodes are directed
 

HMatsunaga54

First Lieutenant
39 Badges
Jul 15, 2012
295
98
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
A trading Ming is possible, your sitting on the largest supplies of Tea and Chinaware and depending on whether or not you want include Manchuria,Tibet, and Taiwan as conquests-colonies you could a fair deal of grain and metal too. It's more feasible because China was very valuable to Europeans, unlike say a trading Muscovy that would have to either go to the black sea or conquer Novgorod.
 

jockedahl

Colonel
26 Badges
Apr 13, 2013
1.065
461
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Victoria 2
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Cities: Skylines
Isn't trade like a minimal share of Ming's income. In the sense that like a 5% production bonus would outweight a 100% trade bonus almost?

Or am I getting it wrong? Do they really have a lot of trade flowing into their node? Feels like the design is outflow mostly and then what's the point in trade with China?

Edit: From what I can see in QUills video, The Beijing trade node sucks for a trade game. It's outflow only.

However if you could change capital so something else downstream like Hangsou you could funnel in trade from Nippon, The Americas, Canton and Beijing.

Then it would be the matter of gaining trade power in Nippon. Maybe take pieces of Japan and Korea. I have no idea if it would be possible to go to americas given the tech cost, would be fun though. Give the amount of gold you take in maybe you could spam fleet basing rights everywhere almost?
 
Last edited:

Red_warning

Field Marshal
83 Badges
Jul 5, 2010
3.053
23.363
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • War of the Roses
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Knights of Pen and Paper 2
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Tyranny - Tales from the Tiers
  • Tyranny - Bastards Wound
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Surviving Mars
  • Crusader Kings Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Victoria 2
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
Isn't trade like a minimal share of Ming's income. In the sense that like a 5% production bonus would outweight a 100% trade bonus almost?

Or am I getting it wrong? Do they really have a lot of trade flowing into their node? Feels like the design is outflow mostly and then what's the point in trade with China?

Trade in the game is clearly designed to encourage Chinese world domination.
 

Illanair

Space Duck
81 Badges
Feb 28, 2011
6.337
626
  • Victoria 2
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
  • Leviathan: Warships
  • Magicka
  • March of the Eagles
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • The Showdown Effect
  • Cities in Motion
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • War of the Vikings
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • A Game of Dwarves
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Dungeonland
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Magicka 2 - Signup Campaign
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Victoria 2 Beta
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • 500k Club
  • War of the Roses
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV
Asia and America have issues with trade dominance, as they can only collect from each node, not send it "back" towards them (All of the trade routes move AWAY from these areas and TO Europe)

Example:

Ming can only collect from nodes that they have trade power in (I.E. own land). A European nation can use their merchants to PULL trade from nodes they do not own land in, and then collect it further down the stream. So unless you're conquest happy, you'll run out of places to put your merchants quickly.
 

lowdias

First Lieutenant
12 Badges
Oct 5, 2009
254
112
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Magicka
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
Well, I am not aware of Ming trading in beer or cheese, or any European commodity for that matter, except weapons but that's later in the game, ideally the trade routes should be in one way and the other. However what's doable I think is to give a bonus income for every trade route leaving a node, based on the value of said route.
 
Last edited:

TheDarkMaster

Field Marshal
72 Badges
Jan 1, 2012
6.853
2.235
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Gettysburg
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Magicka
  • Naval War: Arctic Circle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • Warlock 2: Wrath of the Nagas
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Cities in Motion
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Dungeonland
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • 500k Club
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
It simply means that Ming isn't very good at trade steering, since they can't add more income to their nodes. They can still earn and benefit from increased trade power and income, so you're just more likely to send your merchants to collect tax rather then steer it.
 

Cymsdale

High Warlord
157 Badges
Dec 28, 2009
5.582
13.177
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Teleglitch: Die More Edition
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • War of the Roses
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Crusader Kings Complete
  • Surviving Mars
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • BATTLETECH - Backer
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma Pre-order
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Prison Architect
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
Since I've obviously not played the game yet, I can only speculate.

I don't think it would be as ridiculous as say... Ulm focusing on naval ideas.

It sounds like going trade focus on Ming would be sub-optimal. Gold is gold, and they seem in a much better position to get income from production and taxes (gold is gold after all). However, there's nothing to say you couldn't focus on all three aspects of income with trade simply being third-place-but-not-insubstantial-source.

Even though your node only has outflow, building up the value of trade power is not useless. Instead of focusing on making trade come in, your power makes sure that trade does not go out. A trade-focused Ming is going to be able to retain the node's value a lot more than one that ignores it, much to the frustration of Western powers who were hoping to divert that value to their old lands.

I assume that you can't just stack all your merchants into a single node, so what to do with the others? Probably best to just plant them into the nodes that give you the biggest return when you collect. Yes the other nodes don't give as optimal a return as the capital one, but income is income, and using your power to divert from one node to another is pretty much pointless. Build your power in the best nodes you can with ships and conquest and take your piece of the pie.

Moving your capital is an option, but how much that makes sense depends on the situation. After all, if you've built up and are holding a near-monopoly in your starting node, it still might be worth more to go with the strategy to retain value at home and accept the 50% hit on other node returns.

Trade and war are not mutually exclusive. Your trade power depends a lot on your holdings, and you can steal trade power from rivals in peace deals. The trade power you steal can be used to help retain value in nodes and to take a larger share of income in nodes that they hold. I could see this being a very effective way to improve your income without having to deal with the headaches that come with over extension. Of course, not going to war means your resources can be spent to build the infrastructure at home. I find it best to ask yourself (and this applies to all Paradox games) "what is the best way to make my money work for me right now?" Building up infrastructure sometimes only goes so far, if your coffers are overflowing and you have nothing to build, sometimes war is the only way to put that money to work. That being said, building up a nest egg for future investments should not be ignored either.

Ming can only collect from nodes that they have trade power in (I.E. own land). A European nation can use their merchants to PULL trade from nodes they do not own land in, and then collect it further down the stream. So unless you're conquest happy, you'll run out of places to put your merchants quickly.

I just want to point out, that owning land in other trade node/regions is not the only way (nor the most efficient) to get trade power. Having light ships patrol in the region contributes a significant amount of trade power to a node. This is why trade range is very important, because it opens up which nodes you're allowed to spread your influence in, even if you don't own actual land in the region.
 

Illanair

Space Duck
81 Badges
Feb 28, 2011
6.337
626
  • Victoria 2
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
  • Leviathan: Warships
  • Magicka
  • March of the Eagles
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • The Showdown Effect
  • Cities in Motion
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • War of the Vikings
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • A Game of Dwarves
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Dungeonland
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Magicka 2 - Signup Campaign
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Victoria 2 Beta
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • 500k Club
  • War of the Roses
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV
It simply means that Ming isn't very good at trade steering, since they can't add more income to their nodes. They can still earn and benefit from increased trade power and income, so you're just more likely to send your merchants to collect tax rather then steer it.

Which is exactly what I said - You only have a limited number of nodes where you can collect. You'll end up with idle merchants, and a bunch of European powers pulling out trade from your nodes. :closedeyes:

You CAN pull off trade as an Asian power (Or American), but you'll be at a disadvantage and will never be able to dominate it.
 

TheDarkMaster

Field Marshal
72 Badges
Jan 1, 2012
6.853
2.235
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Gettysburg
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Magicka
  • Naval War: Arctic Circle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • Warlock 2: Wrath of the Nagas
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Cities in Motion
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Dungeonland
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • 500k Club
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
Which is exactly what I said - You only have a limited number of nodes where you can collect. You'll end up with idle merchants, and a bunch of European powers pulling out trade from your nodes. :closedeyes:

You CAN pull off trade as an Asian power (Or American), but you'll be at a disadvantage and will never be able to dominate it.
I do wonder if there will be the option of blocking trade steering?
 

Eldar

Second Lieutenant
109 Badges
Jun 2, 2007
171
1
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Sengoku
  • Supreme Ruler 2020
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Semper Fi
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Cities in Motion
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Magicka
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
Thanks to all and especialy Cymsdale for the advice! I think I will try to play a trading Ming even if it is sub optimal. At least it is not a Ulm naval power ;)
 

Red_warning

Field Marshal
83 Badges
Jul 5, 2010
3.053
23.363
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • War of the Roses
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Knights of Pen and Paper 2
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Tyranny - Tales from the Tiers
  • Tyranny - Bastards Wound
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Surviving Mars
  • Crusader Kings Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Victoria 2
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
Well, I am not aware of Ming trading in beer or cheese, or any European commodity for that matter, except weapons but that's later in the game, ideally the trade routes should be in one way and the other. However what's doable I think is to give a bonus income for every trade route leaving a node, based on the value of said route.

This is quite interesting, what did the Chinese trade in? From America they got tons of silver, that much I know, but I assume they were just as happy to consume exotic spices from Indonesia and India?

Maybe it would be a good thing to have at least one trade route from India -> Indonesia -> China if that's the case
 

mattkunz

Major
54 Badges
Apr 15, 2012
570
248
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Pride of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis IV
Well, I am not aware of Ming trading in beer or cheese, or any European commodity for that matter, except weapons but that's later in the game, ideally the trade routes should be in one way and the other. However what's doable I think is to give a bonus income for every trade route leaving a node, based on the value of said route.

Just a side note: Bouillon cubes were the main European export to Asia, before the English textile industry conquered the world. Though I don't know when that kicked off and it was always ridiculously small in volume, compared to imports from Asia.

On topic: Unless you make the jump over the Pacific I don't think an Eastasian trading game will be viable. It's not so much a question of idle merchants, you can send them anywhere (I know trade range) to collect. It's just, that most of the goods in your trade node will probably be produced by you, so you get more money from it, by just concentrating on production.
 

Illanair

Space Duck
81 Badges
Feb 28, 2011
6.337
626
  • Victoria 2
  • Knights of Pen and Paper +1 Edition
  • Leviathan: Warships
  • Magicka
  • March of the Eagles
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • The Showdown Effect
  • Cities in Motion
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • War of the Vikings
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • A Game of Dwarves
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Dungeonland
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Magicka 2 - Signup Campaign
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Victoria 2 Beta
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • 500k Club
  • War of the Roses
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV

Cymsdale

High Warlord
157 Badges
Dec 28, 2009
5.582
13.177
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Teleglitch: Die More Edition
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • War of the Roses
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Crusader Kings Complete
  • Surviving Mars
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • BATTLETECH - Backer
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma Pre-order
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Shadowrun: Dragonfall
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Prison Architect
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
Since trade steering is based on trade power in the node, I would assume that blocking trade steering simply implicit by having trade power built up in the node (and not actively steering value elsewhere).

EDIT: Also, I believe you could embargo the nations that are meddling more than you approve of.
 

TheDarkMaster

Field Marshal
72 Badges
Jan 1, 2012
6.853
2.235
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Gettysburg
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Magicka
  • Naval War: Arctic Circle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • Warlock 2: Wrath of the Nagas
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Cities in Motion
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Dungeonland
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • 500k Club
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
I just took a glance at China's NIs, and one of the big ones they get is increased trade power generation in their provinces. That of course would mean that they get a lot more control over their trade nodes, and it will be very hard for other nations to take it or steer it, I think.
 

chatnoir17

CK2 NMIH Project Lead
98 Badges
Sep 17, 2009
5.043
193
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Divine Wind
  • Sengoku
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Diplomacy
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Age of Wonders III
  • BATTLETECH
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • BATTLETECH - Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Victoria 2
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
This is quite interesting, what did the Chinese trade in? From America they got tons of silver, that much I know, but I assume they were just as happy to consume exotic spices from Indonesia and India?

Maybe it would be a good thing to have at least one trade route from India -> Indonesia -> China if that's the case

They also imported copper, sulfur and silver from Japan (China lacks these essential metals for coinage) and horses from the Mongols, so trade goods weren't limited by exotic spices. ;)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iwami_Ginzan_Silver_Mine