when does the cathar heresy start? What would be the earliest cathar playable character? I can't see any in the 769 or 867... I've taken the high chiefteness of Kiev and used the ruler creator converted her to to catharism. I don't want to give myself an unfair advantage, would this be considered one? Incidentally is the character creator considered to be well balanced?
Earliest possible cathar?
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I'm pretty sure the only condition for a heresy to appear is that it only appears for characters who are not already heretical. I've adopted Catharism pretty early on as an Anglo-Saxon count and Irish chieftain starting in the Early Middle Ages bookmark. It's all up to the random number generator.
Edit: Kiev is not Catholic though and Catharism is a Catholic heresy. You will have to convert to Catholicism before it can appear. Also, the Ruler Designer does disable achievements, so it's at least considered unbalanced by the creators.
Edit: Kiev is not Catholic though and Catharism is a Catholic heresy. You will have to convert to Catholicism before it can appear. Also, the Ruler Designer does disable achievements, so it's at least considered unbalanced by the creators.
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Historically? The Cathars emerged in the 12th century, and don't get any ruler-level characters until much later (I believe Raymond VI of Toulouse is classed as a Cathar by the early 1200s, but I'd have to check).
You'd be better off as a Bogomil; they're Orthodox heretics, fairly similar, and originated in the 10th century.
Both strands come out of Gnosticism, which is a mystic, dualistic movement that has been running around in some form or other since early in the Church's history, so if you really want, you could justify it as being not-really our Catharism, but another gnostic movement with the same name (it literally means "the Pure Ones", which is generic enough to apply to anyone who wants, and indeed there had been at least one other, completely unrelated heresy that had used the same name in the 300s).
You'd be better off as a Bogomil; they're Orthodox heretics, fairly similar, and originated in the 10th century.
Both strands come out of Gnosticism, which is a mystic, dualistic movement that has been running around in some form or other since early in the Church's history, so if you really want, you could justify it as being not-really our Catharism, but another gnostic movement with the same name (it literally means "the Pure Ones", which is generic enough to apply to anyone who wants, and indeed there had been at least one other, completely unrelated heresy that had used the same name in the 300s).
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The Manichaean faith may have been related to Catharism, and in 769 it is extremely powerful as it is the state religion of the Uighur Khaganate in Mongolia. The secret spread of Gnosticism and associated heresies across the world is pretty cool and almost sounds like a Dan Brown novel. However, in game Manichaeism is just treated as a generic Zoroastrian heresy and has no special mechanics.
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Like Gamengervi, I've seen a province flip to Catharism happen in one of the Breton counties within a couple of decades of the 769 start. Another game had it happen in the first fifty years within West Francia. So, yeah, it can happen very early in game.
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Play as a Catholic, then try to wreck the MA.
Catharism will probably pop up in your counties, it seems to be one of the more common ones.
Catharism will probably pop up in your counties, it seems to be one of the more common ones.
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769, sadly heresies do not emerge dynamically in any way. All of them can appear from the very start.
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Yeah you can get them from the very start. If you get your court chaplain to do cultural technology spread they can get the event where they convert to a heresy and try and convert you to which can get you Cathar very quickly, I got it within 5 years of the 769 start my most recent game.
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But make sure you have the Religious Control Mandate first. It makes it so much easier.
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Also about the ruler designer: I think it's balanced, you're pretty much restricted to making either totally average characters or excels in one thing is terrible at everything ones.