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Jul 27, 2007
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New Edinburgh said:
Speaking of Bulgaria, I've made a province pic for Plovdiv:

PlovdivProvinceOfficial.png


I'm thinking of making a Techteam for Bulgarian Naval Academy...I can't recall if there is one, or something similar:

BulgarianNavalAcademy.png


Any thoughts?
Your images are nice. I have found very good images of Belgrade. Could you convert them in apropriate format? Thank you, New Edinburgh.

Those images are all on this site http://www.antikvarneknjige.com/multimedia/channel/photo/11/old-belgrade , but I do not know how to download them. maybe you will have more luck.
 
Last edited:
Jul 27, 2007
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Von_Luger said:
I've also made some techteams of my own and upgraded others.Here are theyr charakteristics:

1.Varna Shipyard (1930-1970)

Specialties:Naval Artillery,Naval Engeneering and Technical efficiency
Skill:4

2.Renault-Bulgare (1930-1970)

Specialties:Artillery,Technical efficiency,Mechaniks and Managment
Skill:5

I'm still confused in 1 thing though:Belgium didn't make any tanks and yet they have Vickers-Armstrong as a tech team :confused:
All right. Could you send them to me and I will add them and balance them. Thank you.

LORD NIL said:
About renauult-this is redundant team as no balkan country except rom should have team thats ment to research tanks.
Belgium did have domestic tanks-t15 and others i think acg-1.They were quite good and gave germans much troubles.

Why not? Techteams are meant to reserach technology. If Bulgaria researches tanks, they will only recieve that technology, that does not mean that they will build them. For example, Yugoslavia had knowledge of making aircraft carriers, after the WWII, but they did not build them.

LORD NIL said:
All balkan countries have low production of coal-so there is electricity problem.I wouldnt change a bit except if bulgaria has some uber coal mine.
If Von Luger gives us some statistics from that period, we will then discus level of coal production in Bulgaria.

Von_Luger said:
OK,Lord NIL,but Bulgaria moddified it's tanks.As for the ships,well Bulgaria made it's ships(only Destroyers,Heavy Cruisers and Light Cruisers).Why not skill 4?Italian techteams are little underestimated.Theyr skills should be 5 or 6 at max,not 3-4.

A compromise: We could add one destroyer flotilla for Bulgaria, just give me the name for fleet and division. And Italian teams could be increased in skill.

Rush3r, does Romanian fleet need modifications, or we will leave NMS Delfinul flotilla as only Romanian naval unit?
 
Jul 27, 2007
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Delex said:
I found something really cool, when I was searching for a certain info about the flag of Croatia:


Flag of the German community (Volksdeutsche) in Croatia is based on the Nazi flag - the Swastika is replaced by Odal rune of the Ancient German script. Abandoned on May 8, 1945. Also used by Volksdeutsche from Yugoslavian SS-regiment (the 7. SS Freiwillingen-Gebirgs — Division Prinz Eugen).

I dont know how usable it is, but it could be included in an event or something similar (Maybe a research team lol).
It could be added as research team in NDH (ISC), for ground doctrines.

th3freakie said:
Seriously? That's bloody awesome! How does that work in the game?

I was thinking of forming it by event, in which Yugoslavia, India and Egypt sign the pact of union. Later all countries, not allied to USSR or USA, will recieve event to chose wheather to join or to remain neutral. If it goes historical, all South and Central American, African, majority of Asian countries, Sweden, Finland, Yugoslavia, Malta, Cyprus will be in the alliance. Did Portugal participate in the union? I cannot remember.

Dorieus said:
Cool, enjoy your trip to Greece!

Thank you! Your country is very interesting. To be completely honest, if I didn't see any sign in Greek alphabet, nor hear people to speak in different language, I would never guess that I am out of Serbia; people, customs, music, buildings are almost same as in Serbia. Except of presence of sea and religion. And since I travelled from Thessaloniki to Igoumenitsa and Kerkyra, I say that HoI province Ioannina should definitely be mountains; LORD NIL, it looks as canyon of river Morača in Montenegro.
Von_Luger said:
To Vladimir and other Serbs in this forum:please,if you have any info on armament and/or pictures,send them to me.
For the sake of realism could someone tell me if there was a Serbian Goverment that was a puppet of Germany?
Send me your email address via email and I will send you the photos.
Yes, there was a government of Serbia during WWII, called Српска влада под окупациом (Srpska vlada pod okupaciom, Σρπσκα βλαδα ποδ οκουπατσιομ), lead by general Milan Nedić. But governments like that existed in all occupied territories, for example Vidkun Quisling's government in Norway.

Paratrooper said:
Gentlemen,

a fine initiative that I only just caught up with.

I had made my own "mini-mod" trying to enhance the Greek experience.

From what I have seen, the work already done on events, resources, industry and geography far surpasses mine.

You may want, however, to have a look at military leaders and, also, the tech teams, both organisations and individuals. On the organisations I think you are already doing well, maybe with a couple of additions possible, e.g. agricultural uni of Athens which, research suggests, did a lot of theoretical work on its field of expertise, or OTE/DEH for post '49 and '50. NTUA is certainly a good addition as is the Kapodistrian for a more "pure" science approach. Something to note is that resources should be modelled for their potential, not just how they were actually used. There were also some individuals, especially in the military, that did a LOT of theoretical or applied work in line of the development of doctrines. Their contribution fell, to a great extent, victim of post war Greece which has snubbed, in terms of publicity, such individuals (and the infrastructure work in pre-war Greece) mostly for political reasons. A key example is Konstantinos Dabakis (many field manuals, books etc are seminal). There were also others who did development work in practice (Iatrides for basic submariner tactics, Tsigantes who build special forces in Greece - to a great extent going hand-in-hand with the development the brits were doing in the Middle East).

There have also been some good points about how the basic game engine does not model the "purchase" model that many minors followed for their first armour and aircraft units. One of the big mods modelled this properly in the tech tree (I fail to remember which one it was...)

Finally, about armour. I am unsure about wether any of the nations in the area can claim an "armour division" of any sort. An armour division, in game terms, is more than the collection of the equipment (and even that is a stretch, historically). Without expanding on this, I am also of the opinion that, at best, the existing resources up to about '41 should be modelled as brigades.

Keep up the good work!!

PS: I can mail the relevant files to anyone who is interested

I will send you my email address via private message, so that you could send me your work.
 
Jul 27, 2007
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1) I will evade discussion about GDP, as economy is not my area of expertese. However I will now explain why I have increased Yugoslav IC to 27:
- addition of light cruiser, destroyer flotilla, more air, and ground divisions, in 1936 campaign, has increased Yugoslav supplies consumption, that needed to be compensated by slight increase in IC;
- LORD NIL's modified YUG AI, concentrated on historical building of factories, land fortifications, armoured and air divisions, would not follow historical route without more IC.
- considering fact that on 6. April 1941. Yugoslavia has been attacked from all directions, by combined GER/ITA/HUN/BUL/SLO troops, 2 IC more will not make any difference in destiny of Yugoslavia.

2) Should we add events for Bulgaria and Yugoslavia that constructs nuclear reactors, after WWII? Without it, they will never build, with current IC, reactors in Kozloduj and Vinča ( or Krško).

3) I whish to, once and for all, finish Yugoslav province correction. So I need following information for LORD NIL:
- all Bosnian provinces are hills; which one should be converted to mountains?
- I have already added airfields in Ljubljana and Uzice, coastal forts in Osjek and Dubrovnik; but what about other provinces? Wher to put and what level:
* antiair;
* coastal fortifications;
* land fortifications;
* radar stations;
* ports;
* airfields;
* infrastructure;
Consider all possibilities for scenarios '36/'38/'39. since no doubth YUG instalations increased over time.
- resource disposition; I am not expert for other YUG federal units, so I will stick to Serbia; other members from Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia, Macedonia, could help me. These resources should be added:
1. Novi Sad - little manpower (1-2), and through event after the WWII, some oil deposits; the problem is the date of oil discovery; on the site of Naftna industrija Srbije exist only year, not exact date;
2. Zrenjanin - only some oil deposits, but after the WWII, same as Novi Sad;
3. Belgrade - coal increased to 25, because of Kolubara and Kostolac mines;
4. Uzice - manpower (1-2, current 0), 3-4 rare material (current 0);
5. Podgorica - metal to 6 ( current 4);
6. Skopje - manpower to 3 (current 1), because of Albanian population, which has great rate of multiplication;
7. Pristina - manpower to 4 (current 1), same reason, coal to 40-50 because of one of largest European coal deposits, rare materials 20-25, because of variety of rare ores, mercury, and largest deposits of natural uranium in Europe, zero IC;
8. Nis - metal 40-45 (current 5), considering Bor mines second in Europe after USSR by copper production, rare materials to 10 (current 2), because of significant deposits of noble metals (gold, silver, platinum, mercury...).

4) Croatia should be added as playable nation in 1941. campaign. Campaign starts on 22. June 1941. and NDH was formed on 10. April, during April war in Yugoslavia.
 

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Vladimir II said:
1. Novi Sad - little manpower (1-2), and through event after the WWII, some oil deposits; the problem is the date of oil discovery

I seem to recall reading it was around 1949. :)

Vladimir II said:
6. Skopje - manpower to 3 (current 1), because of Albanian population, which has great rate of multiplication;

Something about the way you put that made me giggle. :p
 
Last edited:

Crush3r

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Vladimir II said:
Rush3r, does Romanian fleet need modifications, or we will leave NMS Delfinul flotilla as only Romanian naval unit?

Add the NMS Regele Ferdinand destroyer, it was the flagship, and more important than the submarine, except for that sub annoying the Soviet fleet.

And post the current IC, manpower and resource distribution, so I can spot what changes are needed.
 
Jul 27, 2007
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New Edinburgh said:
I seem to recall reading it was around 1949. :)



Something about the way you put that made me giggle. :p
I know the year, but I cannot find month and day.

Maybe it is funny, but it is truth. Anyway, it is good for division reinforcing.

And, could you try to do something with Belgrade images I posted? Thank you in advance.

Rush3r said:
Add the NMS Regele Ferdinand destroyer, it was the flagship, and more important than the submarine, except for that sub annoying the Soviet fleet.

And post the current IC, manpower and resource distribution, so I can spot what changes are needed.

All right. I will do so.

Romanian resources disposition:
**********IC / Manpower / Oil / Steel / Coal / Rare Materials
Beltsy 2 1 0 1 2 1
Iasi 3 2 0 8 5 1
Chisinev 2 1 0 2 2 1
Ismail 0 0 0 0 0 0
Constanta 1 0 0 0 1 0
Bucharest 7 6 4 6 20 5
Pitesti 0 0 0 0 0 0
Craiova 2 1 0 1 8 2
Timisoara 1 1 0 1 1 0
Sibiu 1 1 0 0 1 0
Cluj-Napoca 2 1 0 7 4 1
Bacau 1 1 0 0 9 0
Brasov 1 0 0 0 3 0
Arad 1 1 0 0 1 0
Satu Mare 1 1 0 0 1 0
Ploesti 1 1 36 0 1 2
Braila 1 1 0 0 1 0
Tulcea 0 0 0 0 0 0

P.S. Sorry for bad look of the table.
 

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Vladimir II said:
Could you tell me how have you extracted that image?

1. PrintScreen (on yer keyboard).

2. Paste into new bitmap image.

3. Crop.

4. Erase copyright label. :p

5. Resize to 252 x 144.

6. Using Paint, to go Attributes, adjust size to 252 x 152, colour margin the bright neon green.
 

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Vladimir II said:
I know the year, but I cannot find month and day.

Maybe it is funny, but it is truth. Anyway, it is good for division reinforcing.

And, could you try to do something with Belgrade images I posted? Thank you in advance.



All right. I will do so.

Romanian resources disposition:
**********IC / Manpower / Oil / Steel / Coal / Rare Materials
Beltsy 2 1 0 1 2 1
Iasi 3 2 0 8 5 1
Chisinev 2 1 0 2 2 1
Ismail 0 0 0 0 0 0
Constanta 1 0 0 0 1 0
Bucharest 7 6 4 6 20 5
Pitesti 0 0 0 0 0 0
Craiova 2 1 0 1 8 2
Timisoara 1 1 0 1 1 0
Sibiu 1 1 0 0 1 0
Cluj-Napoca 2 1 0 7 4 1
Bacau 1 1 0 0 9 0
Brasov 1 0 0 0 3 0
Arad 1 1 0 0 1 0
Satu Mare 1 1 0 0 1 0
Ploesti 1 1 36 0 1 2
Braila 1 1 0 0 1 0
Tulcea 0 0 0 0 0 0

P.S. Sorry for bad look of the table.


No need to worry about the looks :D

**********IC / Manpower / Oil / Steel / Coal / Rare Materials
Beltsy 1 1 0 1 2 1
Iasi 3 2 0 8 5 1
Chisinev 2 1 0 2 2 1
Ismail 1 0 0 0 0 0
Constanta 0 0 0 0 1 0
Bucharest 6 6 0 6 20 5
Pitesti 0 0 0 0 3 0
Craiova 2 1 0 1 9 2
Timisoara 2 1 0 2 1 0
Sibiu 1 1 0 0 1 3
Cluj-Napoca 2 1 0 7 4 1
Bacau 0 1 0 0 7 0
Brasov 1 0 0 0 3 0
Arad 1 1 0 3 1 1
Satu Mare 1 1 0 3 1 0
Ploesti 3 1 36 0 1 2
Braila 1 1 0 0 1 0
Tulcea 1 0 4 0 0 0
 

unmerged(96018)

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Apr 2, 2008
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The Macedonia thing

Vladimir II said:
I was thinking of forming it by event, in which Yugoslavia, India and Egypt sign the pact of union. Later all countries, not allied to USSR or USA, will recieve event to chose wheather to join or to remain neutral. If it goes historical, all South and Central American, African, majority of Asian countries, Sweden, Finland, Yugoslavia, Malta, Cyprus will be in the alliance. Did Portugal participate in the union? I cannot remember.

Thank you! Your country is very interesting. To be completely honest, if I didn't see any sign in Greek alphabet, nor hear people to speak in different language, I would never guess that I am out of Serbia; people, customs, music, buildings are almost same as in Serbia. Except of presence of sea and religion. And since I travelled from Thessaloniki to Igoumenitsa and Kerkyra, I say that HoI province Ioannina should definitely be mountains; LORD NIL, it looks as canyon of river Morača in Montenegro.

I'm glad you had a good time in Greece, Vladimire, but as you know the Greek-Serb friendship has never worked when it came to Macedonian issues. In previous posts I made suggestions on how Macedonia could be released by a communist Yugoslavia or Bulgaria with a communist flag. But then in post #1137 you sent out the flag used in 1992 and withdrawn in 1995 which is based on a symbol popularized after an excavation in Greece in 1977.

I am personally interested in a Balkan historical scenario rather than a Yugoslav fantasy scenario. With things like the Union of Non-Aligned States and the Macedonian question I can see clearly that this mod is more about the latter than the former. Also I think it's silly to fight about the Macedonian issue (I am Macedonian myself) though a Paradox Forum, but we all have our sensitivities. I hope you found my contributions useful and good luck with the design.
 
Jul 27, 2007
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We are not going to fight now. The flag is not meant for the mod. If you look at the New Nations Mod thread, you will see that just few minutes ago, I supported a Greek, against Macedonians. Your help is very significant, and I do not whish you to leave. As you have seen, I wanted to add Albanian eagle on the flag, because I need it for something, not for this mod.
 

unmerged(93698)

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Vladimir II said:
Thank you! Your country is very interesting. To be completely honest, if I didn't see any sign in Greek alphabet, nor hear people to speak in different language, I would never guess that I am out of Serbia; people, customs, music, buildings are almost same as in Serbia. Except of presence of sea and religion. And since I travelled from Thessaloniki to Igoumenitsa and Kerkyra, I say that HoI province Ioannina should definitely be mountains;

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
You see that !!!
Yes it is real that there are mountains.. I 'm happy reading it.
So you make that trip.
I think that there are 2 other greeks that want help a lot and I have some examination so tha is the reason I stop replying although I am seeing the new posts etc.

I have to propose you to make a new cataloge with what you have collected so long..
 

unmerged(55640)

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Apr 9, 2006
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Vladimir II said:
1) I will evade discussion about GDP, as economy is not my area of expertese. However I will now explain why I have increased Yugoslav IC to 27:
- addition of light cruiser, destroyer flotilla, more air, and ground divisions, in 1936 campaign, has increased Yugoslav supplies consumption, that needed to be compensated by slight increase in IC;
- LORD NIL's modified YUG AI, concentrated on historical building of factories, land fortifications, armoured and air divisions, would not follow historical route without more IC.
- considering fact that on 6. April 1941. Yugoslavia has been attacked from all directions, by combined GER/ITA/HUN/BUL/SLO troops, 2 IC more will not make any difference in destiny of Yugoslavia.

2) Should we add events for Bulgaria and Yugoslavia that constructs nuclear reactors, after WWII? Without it, they will never build, with current IC, reactors in Kozloduj and Vinca ( or Krško).

3) I whish to, once and for all, finish Yugoslav province correction. So I need following information for LORD NIL:
- all Bosnian provinces are hills; which one should be converted to mountains?
- I have already added airfields in Ljubljana and Uzice, coastal forts in Osjek and Dubrovnik; but what about other provinces? Wher to put and what level:
* antiair;
* coastal fortifications;
* land fortifications;
* radar stations;
* ports;
* airfields;
* infrastructure;
Consider all possibilities for scenarios '36/'38/'39. since no doubth YUG instalations increased over time.
- resource disposition; I am not expert for other YUG federal units, so I will stick to Serbia; other members from Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia, Macedonia, could help me. These resources should be added:
1. Novi Sad - little manpower (1-2), and through event after the WWII, some oil deposits; the problem is the date of oil discovery; on the site of Naftna industrija Srbije exist only year, not exact date;
2. Zrenjanin - only some oil deposits, but after the WWII, same as Novi Sad;
3. Belgrade - coal increased to 25, because of Kolubara and Kostolac mines;
4. Uzice - manpower (1-2, current 0), 3-4 rare material (current 0);
5. Podgorica - metal to 6 ( current 4);
6. Skopje - manpower to 3 (current 1), because of Albanian population, which has great rate of multiplication;
7. Pristina - manpower to 4 (current 1), same reason, coal to 40-50 because of one of largest European coal deposits, rare materials 20-25, because of variety of rare ores, mercury, and largest deposits of natural uranium in Europe, zero IC;
8. Nis - metal 40-45 (current 5), considering Bor mines second in Europe after USSR by copper production, rare materials to 10 (current 2), because of significant deposits of noble metals (gold, silver, platinum, mercury...).

4) Croatia should be added as playable nation in 1941. campaign. Campaign starts on 22. June 1941. and NDH was formed on 10. April, during April war in Yugoslavia.
First i will concetrate on ww2 issues as i am mostly concerned about them.
If we are gonna increase yugoslav ic(for which i am not entussiaiast as i stand on point of 25) we should increase all balkan nation ic-than bul,and gre could go over 20,romania must go up...
3)Sarajevo as it is connected with serbia and fit in defence plan-making others mountains will have no value as you are to be cut off.
For airfields-yugoslavia must be able to cover alll teritory by airforce-skoplje end eventually zagreb
Resources-manpower should be stick with comparation of real manpower in times(36)-15 million yug,7 gre,6 bulg,19 all romania etc.Fit manpower taking this in account.
Resources-overall-you are increasing too much.
Pristina-coal-not much extracted in 36-mostly lignit which is low value-so no increase.Rare are not that high and i am generally contet with 3-4 maybe 5.
Nis-choose metal or rare what will be produced.Not so high values rare 4-5 if metal 10-13.

Belgrade i dont know cureent situation-but it could gon only in slight increase of coal.

LORD NIL's modified YUG AI, concentrated on historical building of factories, land fortifications, armoured and air divisions, would not follow historical route without more IC.
My modifying of AI is not totally as you said.Yugoslavia will go on historical building route-fortify ita and ger border,built infrantry divisions,some planes etc.Yug will not build armored divisions(although generalstab wanted this it could never happen with limited funds and lasc of possibility to get equipment -my modificationm here is that if it stays alive it will built it in longer run.(eg if it goes with axis for example).

Overall,we need some democratic way of confirming acceptance of these changes.Iam not some judge here i am only discussing and trying to match realism in way i ca.So for final acceptance if we are finish some issues we need to finally agree and not return to old points over and over again if we are to get this mod completed. :)
About IC-Dont see my way of criticism as descreasing powers of bulgaria or anyone-i am just trying to critique something i dont see real.If Bulgarian,Greece other members of thread want to increase ic of Greece,Bulgaria to any value-20 21 or other i dont mind-first i must see attitudes of other members which are active.But please people take real economic/industrial capabilities of country in account do not go as paratrooper said only on gutt feeling.

For vladimir- i have proposal-as you are central depot and holding vital information that are to be implemented-could you somehow in longer run gather all accepted changes we are to implement in mod on your first post-so we could overview total situation of changes that are to happen-and post comment if we dont agree.I think this will make our job easier and more concetrated.
 

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Vladimir II said:
2) Should we add events for Bulgaria and Yugoslavia that constructs nuclear reactors, after WWII? Without it, they will never build, with current IC, reactors in Kozloduj and Vinča ( or Krško).

When were they built? Romania has a nuclear reactor in Cernavodă, but built in the 80s, though a 1960 event can be made with a 50/50 AI chance.