E3 Mod & E3 Map thread

[mumia]

Delex, I don't mind your idea at all, I just said that Vladimir II. knows that region more than you and me, so if you guys tend to suport mumia's idea he could give us info etc.

mumia: If you ask me, I would make two provinces instead of one, serbian part would be called Novi Pazar, Montenegrin part should be called... Bijelo Polje or Pljevlja.

But almost all Sandjak were a part of Montenegro puppet state (without Novi Pazar) and this partition of Sandjak between Serbia and Montenegro is IIRC just modern idea (on the maps scanned by Vladimir it looks like it was mostly a part of Serbia).

 

[Sgt. Optimus]

But almost all Sandjak were a part of Montenegro puppet state (without Novi Pazar) and this partition of Sandjak between Serbia and Montenegro is IIRC just modern idea (on the maps scanned by Vladimir it looks like it was mostly a part of Serbia).

Well, you're right, I forgot about that. But, those new borders on your modified HOI map define new post WWII AVNOJ borders of federal divisions of Yugoslavia, so the idea about the whole Raška belonging to Montenegro doesn't seem right.

 

[mumia]

Look I didnt say they loved the soviets and so on. I just said that there was no resistance against the soviets 1940-1941->1944>.

I quote myself:

170 000 soldiers fighting against Soviets is nothing as Baltic states were not so heavily populated? They was fighting against Soviets 1940-1941 and 1944-1953.

Do you still think that there was no resistance?

 

[unmerged(62478)]

Why are we discussing things that are perfectly good and were already defined by others (I'm not referring to the Serbian question which is new because the new map). We make unnecessary thing too complicated.

 

[unmerged(62478)]

I quote myself:

Do you still think that there was no resistance?

They wre not resisting. Read the link I sent it is stated there. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estoni...ialist_Republic

 

[Prinz Wilhelm]

Why are we discussing things that are perfectly good and were already defined by others (I'm not referring to the Serbian question which is new because the new map). We make unnecessary thing too complicated.

...

 

[mumia]

They wre not resisting. Read the link I sent it is stated there. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estoni...ialist_Republic

On June 17, Estonia accepted the ultimatum. The Estonian government decided according to the Kellogg-Briand Pact not to defend themselves; given the overwhelming Soviet force both on the borders and inside the country, the order was given not to resist, to avoid bloodshed and open war.
Same would happen if they officially revolt against Soviet (no chance to win open war --> massacre of Balts) so some Balts formed Forest Brothers which were partisans --> partisan activity. Cores on Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania mean no partisan activity. 170 000 people is really huge numer of partisans for such small countries (i.e. Poland in 2008 has ~120 000 soldiers).

 

[mumia]

Well, you're right, I forgot about that. But, those new borders on your modified HOI map define new post WWII AVNOJ borders of federal divisions of Yugoslavia, so the idea about the whole Raška belonging to Montenegro doesn't seem right.

But almost all (without Novi Pazar municipality) Raška was a part of Montenegro puppet state and we changed before border of Kosovo to fit border between Albanian puppet state and Nedić's Serbia - we've added Serbska Mitrovica region to Nedić's Serbia. Here is the map I'm talking about:

 

[Sgt. Optimus]

Well, in that case I agree.
You could shrink Užice and Cetinje a bit, so you can fit Raška (Sandjak) betwen

 

[unmerged(62478)]

On June 17, Estonia accepted the ultimatum. The Estonian government decided according to the Kellogg-Briand Pact not to defend themselves; given the overwhelming Soviet force both on the borders and inside the country, the order was given not to resist, to avoid bloodshed and open war.
Same would happen if they officially revolt against Soviet (no chance to win open war --> massacre of Balts) so some Balts formed Forest Brothers which were partisans --> partisan activity. Cores on Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania mean no partisan activity. 170 000 people is really huge numer of partisans for such small countries (i.e. Poland in 2008 has ~120 000 soldiers).

Those forest brothers were only conducting operations during 1944. That means that there was no resistance. And even if it was, it was not worth mentioning (Not like the one in Yugoslavia where about 1.000.000 people were resisting on its peak). That means that if it even was before 1944 it was so small that the territory could be kept functioning at 100% (So heres the reson for claims).

 

[Prinz Wilhelm]

Should northern Slovenia be remade to fit the German claims there?

Delex: Stationing troops there except for beach troops is then unnecessary...

 

[unmerged(62478)]

Should northern Slovenia be remade to fit the German claims there?

Delex: Stationing troops there except for beach troops is then unnecessary...

First it is already made to fit the German claims lol, you cant get me with that.

And about stationing troops there. You have to know Stalin to understand this. Although his generals advised him not to, he relocated all his troops from the well defended Joseph Stalin line, to the new acquired lands (Besarabia, Baltic's and East Poland). So there would be troops anyway, if the Estonians resisted or not (And they didn't).

 

[mumia]

Those forest brothers were only conducting operations during 1944. That means that there was no resistance. And even if it was, it was not worth mentioning (Not like the one in Yugoslavia where about 1.000.000 people were resisting on its peak). That means that if it even was before 1944 it was so small that the territory could be kept functioning at 100% (So heres the reson for claims).

They have started partisan activity in 1941 when Barbarossa started. After annexation of Baltic states Soviet government 'encouraged Russians to move there' and kept Red Army there so they couldn't start open revolt, but they (Forest Brothers) still were there - it's revolt risk, it's not the same as national uprising, but still risk that Balts would revolt against occupants (Soviets). They've make it when Germans started a war against Soviets, they were disbanded by Germans, but it doesn't mean that they disappeared. USSR should have claims at Baltic states after war just because there were enough strong Russian minority/administration to keep this territory in USSR.

 

[unmerged(62478)]

They have started partisan activity in 1941 when Barbarossa started. After annexation of Baltic states Soviet government 'encouraged Russians to move there' and kept Red Army there so they couldn't start open revolt, but they (Forest Brothers) still were there - it's revolt risk, it's not the same as national uprising, but still risk that Balts would revolt against occupants (Soviets). They've make it when Germans started a war against Soviets, they were disbanded by Germans, but it doesn't mean that they disappeared. USSR should have claims at Baltic states after war just because there were enough strong Russian minority/administration to keep this territory in USSR.

1941 dosnt count because Estonia has allready fallen 3+ (Some days) months after the invasion. Thats a bit too fast to have any effect on Soviets. In fact, that is so fast, that they would do more damge to the Germans as to the Soviets. So as you can see reason for claims.

 

[Prinz Wilhelm]

First it is already made to fit the German claims lol, you cant get me with that.

No, it's not.

 

[unmerged(81141)]

This is my last post, until September:

1. I will include union of Greece and Yugoslavia, Union of United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and France, based on historical facts;
2. I will include union of Finland and Estonia based on historical facts, if you agree;
3. I had never told that I will include puppet states on Balkan peninsula except Independent State of Croatia, which was the only existing souvereign state (although not internationally recognised); I added Principality of Pindus based on Crush3r's proposal, but if the nation does not comply with the standard, I will remove it;
4. Actually, that province representing Raška region is not so important. You do not need to add it. But if you wish to add it, then do not change the border of Cetinje province, but reshape the border between new province Novi Pazar and existing province Užice, so that province Užice matches approximately partisan formed 'Republic of Užice' (Ужичка република/Užička republika).

 

[unmerged(62478)]

Prinz Wilhelm-Yes it is. Cant you see that province of Maribor would fit nicely in?

Vladimir II-On which historical facts anyway lol, don't forget to include the union of Bulgaria and Yugoslavia. And who will rule Yugogrecia anyway?

 

[mumia]

Prinz Wilhelm-Yes it is. Cant you see that province of Maribor would fit nicely in?

Vladimir II-On which historical facts anyway lol, don't forget to include the union of Bulgaria and Yugoslavia. And who will rule Yugogrecia anyway?

I think Prinz Wilhelm means that region around Jesenice, Bled and Bovec should be a part of Germany, not Italy. I think I wrongly based border between Ljubljana and Maribor on river, not on correct map of occupation zones in Yugoslavia. It will be corrected.

 

[Prinz Wilhelm]

Prinz Wilhelm-Yes it is. Cant you see that province of Maribor would fit nicely in?

No it won't. If you got photoshop or something like that, make one of the images low opacity and merge them over each other. Surprise! they won't fit. Maribor is too small.

 

[unmerged(62478)]

No it won't. If you got photoshop or something like that, make one of the images low opacity and merge them over each other. Surprise! they won't fit. Maribor is too small.

You know what, Berlin is a small province. And Maribor fits perfectly in. Just see this picture of the GGR without Poland. And now tell me again it doesn't fit in, because it does (I know i forgot to add one Danish province).