E3 Mod & E3 Map thread

[mumia]

That would be cool, in case these were the actual claims.

How 'bout Lithuanian claims? Did they had any "Megali Ideas" too? The reason I'm asking this is, they were quite big in medieval ages (Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth).

Megali ideas in Lithuania? I think every nation on the world has something like that, but mostly it's only theoretical ideas of some marginal nationalists. I proposed Lithuanian claims on provinces where Lithuanians actualy lives and on terrains that were disputable between Lithuania and Poland in '20s and '30s. I don't see any chance to form Lithuania in borders from medieval era as there lives Belarussians and Ukrainians and you know Lithuanians ~4 million people < Belarussians and Ukrainians ~55 million people, that would be many partisans against Lithuanian rule.

In my opinion Finland shouldn't have claims on Estonia or Leningrad, just on territory where Finns or Karelians lives so mostly terrain occupied by Finland during WW2.

You all are talking about potential/theoretical unions or territorial claims which in history never existed or were just temporary ideas which make this mode too ahistorical or just alternate history mod. I just named Danzig as Polish official name Gdańsk and some of you named me nationalist so I don't know how to name i.e. ideas of Finland from Estonia to Ural or something like that. Please keep history with few alternate ways in some situations or this mod will be too ahistorical.

I have question about Baltic states and Belarus, what will you do with them during Barbarossa? Reichskommisariat Ostland as one puppet state, separate 4 puppet states or just simply annexed territory by Germany? and what with Ukraine? Reichskommissariat Ukraine or annexed territory? I'm asking because you plan to add puppet Serbia and other states on the Balkans which had similar status as eastern European Reichskommisariats. Reichskommisariats were more German administrative/occupation zones, but some of them had land forces which fought with Germans against Soviets. If you plan to not add Reichskommisariats as puppet states (which would be more historical way) you could just add these few divisions to German forces by events just like divisions formed in Belgium, Netherlands, Danemark, Norway or France.

 

[unmerged(62478)]

Salla is Finnish territory from start, why isn't it the same colour as Helsinki?

Sorry about that, map was made in a haste.

 

[Sgt. Optimus]

Well, finns would know better about their claims in WWII, unfortunately there are only two of them and each of them have their own opinion.

Let's wait for Vladimir II.

 

[mumia]

About map:
I have some time today so I try to make few on map changes and I need help with Novi Pazar province which I plan to add now. I don't know if it should include only Serbian part of Sandjak or maybe Montenegrin part too. In WW2 Novi Pazar stayed as a part of Nedić's Serbia, but almost all Sandjak (Serbian part too) became part of Montenegro puppet state of Italy. This map shows whole Sandjak:

You could tell me which Sandjak municipalities should be a part of Novi Pazar province and which not, in reality only Novi Pazar municipality was a part of Nedić's Serbia.

 

[Van der Gent]

You think if Finland occupied Leningrad there wouldn't be partisan activity. Almost in all occupied territory during the war there were partisans and areas occupied by Finland shouldn't be except (excluding east Karelia).

The game doesn't handle that. There are many nations with starting and regular claims on provinces which should have partisans to represent freedom/guerilla movement.

So USSR can have Estonia as cores, but not Finland? The Estonians would be much more content under finnish than soviet rule.

Well, finns would know better about their claims in WWII,

However I doubt they were alive back then. And such grandiose claims are usually not spoken of later on, claiming large pieces of land havent't been fashionable since the 40's.


As the Finns used to say: "Suuri Suomi—Uraliin asti!"

 

[Sgt. Optimus]

About Raška:

mumia, you will have to ask Vladimir, he lives in Serbia, he should tell you which municipalities could be added.

By the way, will the NDH (ISC) have any claims on Raška region?

 

[unmerged(62478)]

Sgt. Optimus-I think we should have a more democratic point of view.

Van der Gent-Actually the game does handle that by revolt risk. And which nations have claims right from the start, which they shouldn't have?

And second yes USSR can have claims on Estonia and Finland cant. You ask why:
-If Finland would get Estonia, the nation would become a part of a nation named Finland, so there is no Estonia anymore.
-Second it is not historical.
-Third USSR means united soviet socialist republics, that means that, if Estonia joins, they are basically the same as any state in the USA. They are a part of a greater nation with full autonomy.
-Forth if there are nations, which could have legaly have claims on whole world, than those nations are USA and USSR. Because those nations are unions of states not single states.

 

[mumia]

So maybe it should be better to make instead Novi Pazar, province for whole Sandjak/Raška without this town (what name it should have then?) to represent Montenegrin-Serbian border under Italian-German occupation as border drawn on the map represents modern partition of Sandjak.

 

[Van der Gent]

-Third USSR means united soviet socialist republics, that means that, if Estonia joins, they are basically the same as any state in the USA. They are a part of a greater nation with full autonomy.

You aren't seriously caomparing Estonia to an American state?

Wow, that's just...

he people in Wyoming, vote and chose their leaders. However Russian leaders were forced upon the Estonians.

"Autonomy is the right to self-government." In what way were the Estonians self-governing?

 

[unmerged(62478)]

You aren't seriously caomparing Estonia to an American state?

Wow, that's just...

he people in Wyoming, vote and chose their leaders. However Russian leaders were forced upon the Estonians.

"Autonomy is the right to self-government." In what way were the Estonians self-governing?

Inner polticy.

 

[mumia]

Sgt. Optimus-I think we should have a more democratic point of view.

Van der Gent-Actually the game does handle that by revolt risk. And which nations have claims right from the start, which they shouldn't have?

And second yes USSR can have claims on Estonia and Finland cant. You ask why:
-If Finland would get Estonia, the nation would become a part of a nation named Finland, so there is no Estonia anymore.
-Second it is not historical.
-Third USSR means united soviet socialist republics, that means that, if Estonia joins, they are basically the same as any state in the USA. They are a part of a greater nation with full autonomy.
-Forth if there are nations, which could have legaly have claims on whole world, than those nations are USA and USSR. Because those nations are unions of states not single states.

In my opinion USSR shouldn't have claims on Baltic states before end of WW2. When USSR annexed Baltic states there was some partisan activity (i.e. Forest Brothers), it wasn't peaceful annexation. After WW2 Soviets just settled there few Russians so it should become Soviet claims then, but not earlier.

 

[unmerged(62478)]

In my opinion USSR shouldn't have claims on Baltic states before end of WW2. When USSR annexed Baltic states there was some partisan activity (i.e. Forest Brothers), it wasn't peaceful annexation. After WW2 Soviets just settled there few Russians so it should become Soviet claims then, but not earlier.

You shure there was partisan activity? As far as I can read it, the invasion of Estonia was forceful, but mostly peaceful (Except one exception). There were guerrilla forces in the year 1944 (Forest brothers) when the soviets reoccupied Estonia, but trough the whole time, it doesn't seems someone resisted the soviet. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estonian_Soviet_Socialist_Republic )

 

[Miihkali]

In my opinion USSR shouldn't have claims on Baltic states before end of WW2. When USSR annexed Baltic states there was some partisan activity (i.e. Forest Brothers), it wasn't peaceful annexation. After WW2 Soviets just settled there few Russians so it should become Soviet claims then, but not earlier.

Actually they weren't settled or forced to move, government just encouraged them to move there

 

[unmerged(62478)]

Actually they weren't settled or forced to move, government just encouraged them to move there

Thats the spirit.

 

[Sgt. Optimus]

Delex, I don't mind your idea at all, I just said that Vladimir II. knows that region more than you and me, so if you guys tend to suport mumia's idea he could give us info etc.

mumia: If you ask me, I would make two provinces instead of one, serbian part would be called Novi Pazar, Montenegrin part should be called... Bijelo Polje or Pljevlja.

 

[unmerged(62478)]

Delex, I don't mind your idea at all, I just said that Vladimir II. knows that region more than you and me, so if you guys tend to suport mumia's idea he could give us info etc.

mumia: If you ask me, I would make two provinces instead of one, serbian part would be called Novi Pazar, Montenegrin part should be called... Bijelo Polje or Pljevlja.

You mean finland or serbia now.

 

[Sgt. Optimus]

Serbia. Sorry, I forgot to qoute!

 

[mumia]

You shure there was partisan activity? As far as I can read it, the invasion of Estonia was forceful, but mostly peaceful (Except one exception). There were guerrilla forces in the year 1944 (Forest brothers) when the soviets reoccupied Estonia, but trough the whole time, it doesn't seems someone resisted the soviet. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estonian_Soviet_Socialist_Republic )

170 000 soldiers fighting against Soviets is nothing as Baltic states were not so heavily populated? They was fighting against Soviets 1940-1941 and 1944-1953. They were disbanded by Germans from 1941 to 1944. Estonian/Latvian/Lithuanian Soviet Socialist Republics were not continuation of independent states before WW2, they were semi-puppet states highly integrated into USSR. That's not the same like Yugoslavian autonomous states which formed Yugoslavia on their own wish. Soviet Union were not country formed by some communist states, but Imperial Tsar Russia transformed via revolution to 'Union of Soviet Socialist Republics'. It still was ruled by Russian majority (and Red Army which was very good in liquidation of any partisan activity). Balts didn't want any Soviet rule, they was fighting against them. Every country of estern Europe had their own communists, some of them formed pupped governments under Soviet occupation but it doesn't mean that their nations wanted to be under their rule.

 

[unmerged(62478)]

170 000 soldiers fighting against Soviets is nothing as Baltic states were not so heavily populated? They was fighting against Soviets 1940-1941 and 1944-1953. They were disbanded by Germans from 1941 to 1944. Estonian/Latvian/Lithuanian Soviet Socialist Republics were not continuation of independent states before WW2, they were semi-puppet states highly integrated into USSR. That's not the same like Yugoslavian autonomous states which formed Yugoslavia on their own wish. Soviet Union were not country formed by some communist states, but Imperial Tsar Russia transformed via revolution to 'Union of Soviet Socialist Republics'. It still was ruled by Russian majority (and Red Army which was very good in liquidation of any partisan activity). Balts didn't want any Soviet rule, they was fighting against them. Every country of estern Europe had their own communists, some of them formed pupped governments under Soviet occupation but it doesn't mean that their nations wanted to be under their rule.

Look I didnt say they loved the soviets and so on. I just said that there was no resistance against the soviets 1940-1941->1944>.

 

[Prinz Wilhelm]

I'm with mumia here. Cores on the Baltic states should be removed.