Dynastic strategy

[Incompetent]

How do people go about getting all these PUs, now that you need to be same dynasty in order to get a claim throne CB? Does simply claiming the throne out of the blue do anything? How easy is it to spread your dynasty around (or to become part of a great dynasty)?

 

[Korashy]

Generally a lot of it depends on early game luck. I've had my (Castiles dynasty) spread to England and from there to Portugal 5 years into the game, and from there it just exploded like wildfire everywhere. Poland also often tends to have trouble having an heir in my experience and is a fairly easy spread.

 

[TheBloke]

There's good information throughout this thread: http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?734409-Stupid-doubt-with-PU

Without your dynasty on their throne (but you have a RM):

Claiming the throne when they don't have a disputed succession (no heir, weak heir) does nothing at all.

Claiming the throne when they have a weak heir does nothing useful (it spawns Pretender Rebels when the monarch dies, but it doesn't help you whether they win or lose.)

Claiming the throne when they have no heir can give you an automatic PU on monarch death, or put your dynasty next in line for their throne. But it won't give you a CB to enforce this, so if they get an heir before their monarch dies, you will be out of luck.

Note that if they have no heir then you may get the automatic PU even without claiming the throne, in which case claiming the throne does nothing further. However if another nation claims the throne and you don't, that knocks you off; if you both do, it's a succession war.

 

[billclintonmask]

Lots of royal marriages (especially if they don't have an heir). I spread the Rurik line to Bohemia and then Great Britain and then Brandenburg and finally Spain. Then I got dragged into a succession war against Spain and GB while I was at war with HRE Brandenburg claiming their throne and getting the liberalism revolts all over Russia. Kind of a game over at that point. Be careful what you wish for spreading your dynasty

 

[Arfa]

Note that if they have no heir then you may get the automatic PU even without claiming the throne, in which case claiming the throne does nothing further. However if another nation claims the throne and you don't, that knocks you off; if you both do, it's a succession war.

Just a further note - the only succession war I've ever been in I hadn't claimed the throne.

There is also a further option that isn't mentioned that can skip the PU and go straight to inheritance but that is exceedingly rare in my experience (I've seen the AI do it but never happened to me).

 

[TheBloke]

Just a further note - the only succession war I've ever been in I hadn't claimed the throne.

Oh wow, that's weird. And kind of bad. It would suck to suddenly be put in a succession war against a powerful nation and its allies without having done anything active to cause it. And presumably if you're due to get one and you do notice ahead of time, your only option to avoid it is to break the RM at a stab hit cost (unless you're Curia controller) and a huge relations hit to that nation. Or maybe if there's a succession war due without you claiming the throne, then actually claiming it will knock the other succession war nation out of contention. That also has quite a big cost though. I think it's really bad that succession wars can happen automatically, maybe it's even a bug.

What I do know for sure is at the whole PU/claim throne mechanic is rather complicated and very poorly understood! Sure would be nice if they made it clearer and better documented in future patches.

 

[Schmoekoeksklok]

Oh wow, that's weird. And kind of bad. It would suck to suddenly be put in a succession war against a powerful nation and its allies without having done anything active to cause it. And presumably if you're due to get one and you do notice ahead of time, your only option to avoid it is to break the RM at a stab hit cost (unless you're Curia controller) and a huge relations hit to that nation. Or maybe if there's a succession war due without you claiming the throne, then actually claiming it will knock the other succession war nation out of contention. That also has quite a big cost though. I think it's really bad that succession wars can happen automatically, maybe it's even a bug.

What I do know for sure is at the whole PU/claim throne mechanic is rather complicated and very poorly understood! Sure would be nice if they made it clearer and better documented in future patches.

The funny thing is, usually when I get into unexpected unwanted succession wars, I don't have a royal marriage. I've rarely had a game as Denmark where I didn't get into a succession war over the Palatinate just because they start as the same dynasty. I think it's because they like Denmark more then the alternative (Bavaria), so I guess insulting them constantly would help.

It's always things like Palatinate, Mantua or East Frisia that force me into succession wars, never something I actually want

 

[TheBloke]

The funny thing is, usually when I get into unexpected unwanted succession wars, I don't have a royal marriage. I've rarely had a game as Denmark where I didn't get into a succession war over the Palatinate just because they start as the same dynasty. I think it's because they like Denmark more then the alternative (Bavaria), so I guess insulting them constantly would help.

It's always things like Palatinate, Mantua or East Frisia that force me into succession wars, never something I actually want

Your don't even need a RM?? That's really really dumb

 

[MiniaAr]

I had the most lucky string of events in a Poland game. Best part of it, it was a MP game:

• My Jagiellonian king sucked and was getting old, and the heir had a sweet MIL 5 stat, that would have helped a lot getting those military ideas (vs MIL1 for the current king). Therefore I put the King as a general.
• Then the heir died before the king, and the old impotent could not produce another heir.
• I had an alliance and RM with Denmark, which had the Wittelsbach dynasty. Thus when the king finally died, I lost Jagiellon and got a Wittelsbach king.
• Shortly thereafter, the Bavarian monarch died at 28 years old, with no heir.
• Noone had bothered claiming the throne seeing how young he was, this started an automatic succession war between myself and Norway (with also a Wittelsbach king). But I was the defender.
• Then the Norwegian king died, which ended the succession war in my favour, except I did not get the time to take provinces from Norway's ally the Livonian order.
• Except the Norwegian king also did not have an heir, and it started yet another succession war , with Denmark this time, the one who actually gave me the Wittelsbach dynasty in the first place (oh the irony!).
• Denmark (AI) was allied with Brandenburg (player) and Moscowy (player), but given the hectic situation, the got scared and both signed a white peace.

It's the first time I had such PUs without even trying, but I think I used all my luck on this and will never see another un-targeted PU for the whole of EUIV.

 

[TheHoon]

Your don't even need a RM?? That's really really dumb

Well i guess if your related to them already why would you need a marriage to be involved in a succession war but i guess its kinda dumb that it forces you into one even if you dont' want to be

 

[Chieron]

Oh wow, that's weird. And kind of bad. It would suck to suddenly be put in a succession war against a powerful nation and its allies without having done anything active to cause it. And presumably if you're due to get one and you do notice ahead of time, your only option to avoid it is to break the RM at a stab hit cost (unless you're Curia controller) and a huge relations hit to that nation. Or maybe if there's a succession war due without you claiming the throne, then actually claiming it will knock the other succession war nation out of contention. That also has quite a big cost though. I think it's really bad that succession wars can happen automatically, maybe it's even a bug.

What I do know for sure is at the whole PU/claim throne mechanic is rather complicated and very poorly understood! Sure would be nice if they made it clearer and better documented in future patches.

Just got into a succession war with Portugal (who also PUed France and Savoy, and brought in Spain) over Russia as Prussia.. That will be a bloodbath (I did not claim the throne, didn't even have an RM with Russia at the time, but got Russia in PU).

 

[TheBloke]

Well i guess if your related to them already why would you need a marriage to be involved in a succession war but i guess its kinda dumb that it forces you into one even if you dont' want to be

Yeh it might make historical logical sense but it doesn't at all from a game play perspective. What makes it worse is that there are no notifications relating to this. Unless you periodically check the disputed succession list, and check your monarchy screen to see which nations have your dynasty, you will have no idea it's going to happen until you suddenly get a message saying you're at war. At the wrong time that could wreck your game.

I wish there were optional popups for when your dynasty spreads, and for when you're getting a PU with a nation, and for when a succession war is expected.

 

[durvas]

Your don't even need a RM?? That's really really dumb

No, you don't, unfortunately. In my Muscovy game, I got had to fight a succession war against Tver over Ryazan less than 3 weeks into the game, Dec 1 1444.

 

[Khelder]

Well I gues that if you get into succession war it is at least in my opinion job well done as that means that you can get Pu with some one and who wouldn´t like unexpected wars wrecking your country.
But really I see it as an opportunity to get something.

 

[zodium]

Well I gues that if you get into succession war it is at least in my opinion job well done as that means that you can get Pu with some one and who wouldn´t like unexpected wars wrecking your country.
But really I see it as an opportunity to get something.

It's not bad when you're the defender, but it can be annoying if you enter an unsolicited succession war for a target you don't care about, since you can't peace out. Fighting down a major like Austria until they'll accept that I don't care about the throne of Cleves is a little annoying.

 

[Khelder]

well you have a point as it should be easier to lose a succession war or have an option to enter it or not.

 

[TheBloke]

well you have a point as it should be easier to lose a succession war or have an option to enter it or not.

Yeah that would do the job fine. A simple event popup that appears when the monarch dies, saying:

We have a right to the throne of ShitsburgNowheresville!

But those imperial dogs
Austria
(allied with Castile, Portugal, France, England, Burgundy, Cleves, Brandenburg, Bohemia and Muskovy)

are scandalously claiming it as their own!

We must fight them to enforce our right to propagate our dynasty!​

Accept = succession war, as now
Decline = -10 prestige, no succession war, the other nation gets whatever they would have got if they won the war (the PU, presumably.)