Jinnai said:
Duchy of Castille is a 1-province duchy...
If we were to do something about it (which we should, IMO), what should it be?
Remove it and add the province to Do Toledo?
Add Calatayud from Do Zaragoza?
Add Molina from Do Toledo?
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Duchy of Castille is a 1-province duchy...
If we were to do something about it (which we should, IMO), what should it be?
Remove it and add the province to Do Toledo?
Add Calatayud from Do Zaragoza?
Add Molina from Do Toledo?
Abydos
Belgrade
Berwick
Castille
Tiberias
Gotland
Karnten
Krain
Luxembourg
Moscow
Steiermarken
Strathclyde
Artois
Essex
This is a list of all the other 1-countie duchy.
It doesn't mean of course we have to delete them, we could also ad 1 province to it.
Abydos
I don't know anything about this one
Belgrade
I would say either give to Duchy of Serbia or Vidin. Or you could ad a county (Rashka) to it. But I rather not burn my hands on Belgrade
Berwick/Strathclyde
There is already a thread about the scottish duchies, I believe Berwick was added to Lothian and Strathclyde to Argyll.
Castille
See above
Tiberias/Galilee
I would ad Jerusalem to it and rename Duchy of Palestine to Duchy of Acre.
The prince of Galilee was one of the most important vassals of the KoJ so I would keep it in the game.
Gotland
Maybe ad Aland or Oland to it. Or remove it as a duchy and ad Gotland to Smaland. I have no real idea here.
Luxembourg
This should be the exception. And keep it as a 1-county dukedom. Historically adding or deleting it would look rather strange
Moscow/Moskva
Maybe ad Bryansk to it.
Artois
Remove it and use it to create duchy of Holland (Zeeland, Holland, West-Friesland). Ad the county of Artois to Duchy of Flanders.
Essex
Either ad Essex to Norfolk or ad Bedford to it.
Krain
Ad the county of Istria and Veglia to it. But Veglia could also go to duchy of Croatia. There might be other who have a better idea of how it was historically.
Steiermarken/Karnten
Ad these 2 together.
Well lets start the discussion !
Belgrade
Berwick
Castille
Tiberias
Gotland
Karnten
Krain
Luxembourg
Moscow
Steiermarken
Strathclyde
Artois
Essex
This is a list of all the other 1-countie duchy.
It doesn't mean of course we have to delete them, we could also ad 1 province to it.
Abydos
I don't know anything about this one
Belgrade
I would say either give to Duchy of Serbia or Vidin. Or you could ad a county (Rashka) to it. But I rather not burn my hands on Belgrade
Berwick/Strathclyde
There is already a thread about the scottish duchies, I believe Berwick was added to Lothian and Strathclyde to Argyll.
Castille
See above
Tiberias/Galilee
I would ad Jerusalem to it and rename Duchy of Palestine to Duchy of Acre.
The prince of Galilee was one of the most important vassals of the KoJ so I would keep it in the game.
Gotland
Maybe ad Aland or Oland to it. Or remove it as a duchy and ad Gotland to Smaland. I have no real idea here.
Luxembourg
This should be the exception. And keep it as a 1-county dukedom. Historically adding or deleting it would look rather strange
Moscow/Moskva
Maybe ad Bryansk to it.
Artois
Remove it and use it to create duchy of Holland (Zeeland, Holland, West-Friesland). Ad the county of Artois to Duchy of Flanders.
Essex
Either ad Essex to Norfolk or ad Bedford to it.
Krain
Ad the county of Istria and Veglia to it. But Veglia could also go to duchy of Croatia. There might be other who have a better idea of how it was historically.
Steiermarken/Karnten
Ad these 2 together.
Well lets start the discussion !
Hope all these changes (proposed and implemented) are not part of some twisted multiplayer balancing...or else! act.
Because 1-province duchies are evil.Lurken said:
I don't really see any good solution to Gotland though. Bornholm or Öland perhaps, but not Åland.
Because someone posted this in another thread.
Of course it doesn't have to happen.
Just starting a discussion.
Veldmaarschalk said:
Should be removed and added to Nicaea or Aegan/Archipelago
Removed and added to Temes
Removed and added to Lothian
Add to it provinces of Valladolid and Soria.
There is no such duchy, however there is one-province duchy made only of Tiberias named Galilee. This is a historical duchy. Personally I would keep it and add to it Jerusalem.
Remove and add to Ostergotland.
Keep.
Add to it the province of Istria, duchy of istria removed....totally unhistorical...never existed. Istria was historically a county and part of Krain, Veglia was part of Croatia.
Keep.
Add Bryansk to it.
Keep.
Remove, add province to Argyll.
Remove and add province to Flanders.
Add province of Bedford and rename the whole duchy to Befrod. Essex as a duchy never existed, Bedford on the other hand is historical duch for CK period.
Gotland: Keep it, and add øland to it. Traditionally Gotland was quite independent and a member of the Hanseatic league, thus it is only fair to keep it as duchy.
Esben
Esben
strong enough provinces can be one province duchies imho - they are strong enough - f.e. Luxemburgh always has been pretty difficult to capture (excellent fortified position),
Finellach said:
Nope, but meny of the other scandinavian duketitles suffer from the same fact. Who has heard of the duke of Skåne, the duke of Sjælland, duke of Iceland, duke of Norrland etc. Should we drop these as well ?
As lng as there is a three level tier system, it is good to have these (unhistorical) dukedoms to ensure a partitioning of the society.
Esben
Veldmaarschalk said:
Seems kind of silly to wipe out a two-county duchy to retain a one-county duchy
.
caknuck said:Seems kind of silly to wipe out a two-county duchy to retain a one-county duchy
Yes, but Krain did exits as a duchy and Istria not.
The problem with keeping even 1 1-province duchy is that it one needs only spend prestige to get the country to DoW them even if that's all they own. Then you can create a duchy title for youself from just one province (quite useful if your a count) Then also if they own another territory its easy to usurp the title as all you need is that one province.
Jinnai said:
Yes, thats true and is even saves you badpoints plus double prestige.
f.e. you have a claim on the duke and county title of Berwick. You go to war, you win the war but in the peacenegotiations you only take the county title, this saves badboypoints plus you get the prestige from the difference between the warscore and peacevalue. Then you wait till you have 100g and then create the duketitle Duke of Berwick and another 100 prestige gained.
To consistently remove or enlargen all 1-prov duchies would look awful historically. To not do it consistently makes it lose the justification for that.
Also, I think some areas could really use some revisiting on duchies in general, but it's not at all practical to do that kind of revisiting for 1.05. So I'd say rather let the matter rest until we have 1.05 and then see it through with consideration and with the time it requires.
Also, I think some areas could really use some revisiting on duchies in general, but it's not at all practical to do that kind of revisiting for 1.05. So I'd say rather let the matter rest until we have 1.05 and then see it through with consideration and with the time it requires.
Throwing in 2 cents on Essex:
Whilst there was never technically a 'Duke' of Essex, there were a great deal of people who held the prestigious title of 'Earl' of Essex from 1139 onwards, all across the CK period. 'Earl' in England of the time was a Ducal equivalent, with Edwin and Morcar Leofricson being Earls of Mercia and Northumbria respectively (represented as Dukes of Lancaster and Cumberland in game).
Bedford is not a natural part of the Duchy (or area) of Norfolk (and rather curious that it should be), and it could be fused with Essex. You could certainly argue for a Duchy of Bedford, but why on earth that would contain Essex (and therefore London) is hard to justify. Far more likely that the Essex title would be considered superior.
The problem with England is that most of the counties were really one-province Duchies or Earldoms, if not in 1066 then certainly by 1400. Plus, there was historically both an Archbishop of York and a Duke of York (as there was an Archbishop of Canterbury and a Duke of Sussex), each title having a huge amount of influence.
Whilst there was never technically a 'Duke' of Essex, there were a great deal of people who held the prestigious title of 'Earl' of Essex from 1139 onwards, all across the CK period. 'Earl' in England of the time was a Ducal equivalent, with Edwin and Morcar Leofricson being Earls of Mercia and Northumbria respectively (represented as Dukes of Lancaster and Cumberland in game).
Bedford is not a natural part of the Duchy (or area) of Norfolk (and rather curious that it should be), and it could be fused with Essex. You could certainly argue for a Duchy of Bedford, but why on earth that would contain Essex (and therefore London) is hard to justify. Far more likely that the Essex title would be considered superior.
The problem with England is that most of the counties were really one-province Duchies or Earldoms, if not in 1066 then certainly by 1400. Plus, there was historically both an Archbishop of York and a Duke of York (as there was an Archbishop of Canterbury and a Duke of Sussex), each title having a huge amount of influence.
I think late period "earl" is more like "count". Earl of Essex would rather be Count of Essex and would certainly be important for holding the most important province in England. I would argue the same for Earl of Salisbury in real life and Duke of Salisbury in game at least, but as I said in my previous post, I'd rather wait for 1.05 first before going to do such large scale changes.
This kind of stuff was attempted before release but the changes weren´t really compatible with the EU2 converter. I´d presume this could be done in a way that the converter still works if you take that into account from the start.