duchy level bishopric vassals

[qbln]

what are cons and pros?

imho, prince-bishoprics is better for more stable realm. no noble marriages so no inherits. bishops are tend to be more positive to their lieges and IIRC they have no desires for another titles.

what are your thoughts?

 

[justin6477]

I love them. Only drawback is that since the castles aren't held by counts, they tend not to get upgraded much. Apparently only the player cares about his immediate vassals and invests in their upgrades.

Best thing is they never count as feudal vassals (they probably should though) so they're never angry about crown authority. Absolute CA is a must with Crusade happy popes, the bishops like to join the crusades and I don't fancy my entire realm going off to a war I don't want to be part of.

 

[Habraka]

I swear by them. You generally get more taxes (max tax law percentage is 55%, 45 for republics and 30% for feudal iirc), you have more positive opinion modifiers (Crusader trait, Paragon of Virtue, Free Investiture, traits like Kind, Charitable, etc...), they are less likely to rebel and no problems with superdukes or the likes.

 

[unmerged(17577)]

I agree,

Most of the time, when I revoke a county of a rebellious vassal, I give the local bishop the rebel title.

I a must with free investiture - the bishop love you because you put them in office and they can choose their bishop candidates for the titles under them.

I work great in electives systems - bishop are not eligible in elections, but are voters - If you can get rid of all the other eligible and non-dynasty noble in your realm, you get the perfect elective realm where only your dynasty can be elected.

The only problem is at empire level - you cannot give a king title to bishop, which remove the main reason for being an empire ( to have king-level vassals and avoid having to much duke-level vassals to to babysit).

 

[Papaman]

Can you later reverse this? If I revoke the title and give it to a Count will it change into a county or will I get a "wrong title holder"?

 

[Pjstaab]

Can you later reverse this? If I revoke the title and give it to a Count will it change into a county or will I get a "wrong title holder"?

You would have to give the title to a local baron which would then make his holding the capital.

 

[unmerged(17577)]

you can always select a baron and give him the county title. Of course you need to hold the title.

 

[unmerged(26764)]

I'm using them more and more.

Upsides are:

1. They usually pay some tax, so long as they like you more than the pope. Not as much as doges, but decent money.

2. They don't expand outside their de jure borders.

3. They're always your culture.

4. They have a bunch of modifiers that make them very likely to like you more than your other vassals and so they don't rebel. If you crusade and get a lot of piety, they're rock solid.

I mostly run elective realms, so I make all dukes of my dynasty. If I don't have a good dynasty choice, I make a prince-archbishop. I also like to have a mix of prince-archbishops to add a mix of very stable vassals in every region in case things get rocky. They're also a great choice for very large duchies like Brunswick that you don't want to ever see unified with another big dynasty to create a nasty super-duke. If the area is same-culture, I might make a doge for the money. If it's not, prince-archbishops are great.

After an invasion, they can be really great. You can give all the churches in a duchy to one bishop so he has enough cash to upgrade his holdings. And he'll be a nice stable vassal in a new area. A mix of these guys with feudal dukes can be a great replacement regime.

Just don't over-do it. You won't get dynasty prestige from them. And as was said, the barons under them will be poor and won't upgrade their castles. Too many will hurt you over time.

 

[unmerged(17577)]

My pattern is usually, holy war, then grand all county to their local bishop, create duke level bishop, keep one duke per kingdom for your familly continue then begin the process again. Work nicely in Spain and Africa.

 

[Sol Dram]

Will not play wthout prince/arch-bishops ever again the most stable playthrus ever!!!!!!

 

[caquinoh]

I'm not really sure about what happens with king level bishop.

As emperor I'm not able to grant a bishop (patriarch) a kingdom, but in my game a bishop took the kingdom of England which is now called Theocracy of England.
And he really was nothing but a bishop in the county of Dunkeld (which is in Scotland) before he got the kingdom.


(I posted it also in the strange screenshots thread)

 

[AttilaTheFun]

I'm not really sure about what happens with king level bishop.

As emperor I'm not able to grant a bishop (patriarch) a kingdom, but in my game a bishop took the kingdom of England which is now called Theocracy of England.
And he really was nothing but a bishop in the county of Dunkeld (which is in Scotland) before he got the kingdom.

View attachment 68506
(I posted it also in the strange screenshots thread)

Lol. Orthodox Patriarchy of England? That's gotta have a good story behind it...

 

[icon41gimp]

Pretty much hax. Use them if you got no balls.

 

[caquinoh]

Lol. Orthodox Patriarchy of England? That's gotta have a good story behind it...

I can only explain the fact that the Patriarchate is Orthodox.
As Byzantine, I restored the pentarchy by conquering the towns required: Jerusalem, Antioch, Alexandria and Rome. As you do that, you have a decision ("mend the great schism") which revokes the division of Christians and make all of them orthodox. That's why England is Orthodox. Spain, France and HRE are Orthodox too. Only some provinces remainde in the catholic heresy.

The Theocracy of England started before I did that, so it was called Theocracy until It switched to orthodox.

I have no Idea how a Scottish bishop became King of England.

 

[justin6477]

I have no Idea how a Scottish bishop became King of England.

Its some weird nonsense where a Bishop with a claim somehow gets the Kingdom, despite them not being valid for inheritance. Probably through a faction, or someone pushing their claim. Then it remains a theocracy.

Awkward, but not as bad as when an Italian Doge becomes Kaiser.

 

[Blitzzer]

3. They're always your culture.

Not sure if they should be, but in my current ERE game I've constantly had a levantine patriarch of Jerusalem, have had several egyptian patriarchs of Alexandria and for some decades the patriarchy of Rome was held by italians, of whom some were amusingly catholics.

The only reason for this I can think of (because I gave the bishoprics to greeks originally) is that the majority culture in the region is, well, levant for Jerusalem, egyptian in Alexandria and italian in Rome.

Btw, off topic I know, but I think PI should take cues on the spread of religion/culture (in case of CK2) from civilazition V: gods and kings. I like how there can be multiple religions affecting a single, well, holding and that you can affect or atleast see which of them is becoming the majority. And that based on the location there's pressure if the holdings neighbours are of a different religion...