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travis2

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I just got back into victoria 2 with the new AHD and basicaly im wondering what the deal is with dreadnought spam? Im playing as Japan and I have a huge standing army and almost 40 dreadnoughts plus almost as many cruisers and Sweden is beating me with a military score twice my own. I took a peak and noticed they have over 80 dreads! Is this normal? I thought dreads were supposed to be more expensive now and historicaly even the royal navy didnt have this many capital ships. The armchair historian in me is reluctant to be so gamey if this is what is needed to beat out other nations in military score.

Is this just how the game is, should I just wait for a realism mod or something?
 

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Dreadnoughts are more expensive than they were before A House Divide, but apparently not enough. Does anyone know if the AI is smart enough to not go bankrupt if you increase the price of dreadnoughts several-fold?
 

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Some thoughts on dreadnoughts:

They are more expensive compared to your GDP than they used to be. I could just constantly queue up dreadnoughts in my ports for 20 years if I wanted to without too much effort. Now, building 100 dreadnoughts requires that I raise taxes substantially to pay for them. I can afford it, but my POPs feel the pinch and I need enough tax efficiency to pull it off. If I am LF, there's a limit to my dreadnought spamming now.

That being said, if you "close the loop" and produce everything for the dreadnoughts yourself, then you are at least recouping the cost. If you have sufficient iron, coal (for steel and steamers), sulfur (for explosives in artillery), oil (for fuel), and rubber (for electric gears to go in telephones), you can sustain an industry devoted to supplying your dreadnought needs. Two of these resources (oil and rubber) are crucial for high end civilian industries, too, so intelligent empire building that would win you the economic race also secures you a powerful navy.

I don't know how to fix this, to be honest. Raising the cost of dreadnoughts further may reduce their numbers, but I can still build an empire that will make spamming them possible no matter what the price. I can build over 400 right now as long under LF if I have the right colonial empire, so even if you raise the cost by a factor of 10, I'd still be able to beat the UK or Germany prior to the war.

However, if you did raise the cost by a factor of 10, it would more closely resemble the costs of the actual dreadnoughts. Looking at some building costs, the historical dreadnoughts are still more expensive than the ones in AHD. And at a certain price, cruisers start to look attractive again.
 

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One of the problems with army & navy upkeep is the fact that the player can easily control the upkeep cost.

He can either set the stockpile slider to 1% to minimize upkeep cost during peace or he can disable auto-trade and select to only buy specific goods. Since lack of supplies does only reduce ORG, there is no real downside.
It's a bit like HoI3 where you can just set your supply production to 0 for the first few years and only start producing a few months before the war. :>
 

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What if lack if supplies also reduced hull and attack ratings by the same percentage?
It would't matter since you will max your spending when at war anyway. It's a peace time problem.
To fix the thingy, inadequate supplies should cause attrition - although that might cause other problems with low rank/prestige nations and their armies. :/
 

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It's a peace time problem.
To fix the thingy, inadequate supplies should cause attrition - although that might cause other problems with low rank/prestige nations and their armies. :/

Yeah, it would screw over uncivs. Uncivs don't get access to wool for their irregulars easily right now due to low prestige. And if they built real units, those would disintegrate too.

Now that I think about it, what if there were political consequences to underfunding the military stockpile? Say a CON and/or MIL hit for not funding at 100%? That should create a prisoner's dilemma where you either have to over-tax to fund the slider at 100%, causing an increase in MIL and CON, or you end up taking a MIL and CON hit for an under-supplied army? By basing it on the slider and not the actual stockpile situation, countries that just can't get the needed resources are not penalized like nations that engage in willful underspending.

EDIT: Or penalize military score by a percentage based on under-spending.
 

travis2

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I never even thought about messing with the stockpiles or producing upkeep myself and still its no problem to constantly build dreads. I have ammo and arty industry that is in the top 5 for my game but not even one steamer factory or even a steel industry and yet I can still easily support and build my navy without even going into the red for a day.

I noticed in the new realism project that 1 dread represents 4 in cost but I dont think that mod is compatible with AHD, or am I wrong? Either way I guess I will just have accept this part of the game to be competitive.
 

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Well, stockpile slider abuse is mostly for medium-to-small nations who want to become or stay GPs.
In my last Persia game, for example, I didn't expand a bit, so I had to build 300 DN to become #1. While that is no problem for ENG, FRA or GER, little Persia had to reduce it's slider to 25% in the end. ;)
 

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Well, stockpile slider abuse is mostly for medium-to-small nations who want to become or stay GPs.
In my last Persia game, for example, I didn't expand a bit, so I had to build 300 DN to become #1. While that is no problem for ENG, FRA or GER, little Persia had to reduce it's slider to 25% in the end. ;)

It only took 300 dreadnoughts to get you #1? Then you were doing fairly well as Persia, I should say. :)