Drag Nach Osten!

[John Poole]

This is probably one of the most important events in medieval history, the massive movement of the Germans from the Elbe to the Volga. How exactly will it be modelled? I suppose the Crusade part of it is already there but a massive migration? This is very different than a simple Crusade.

Also what of the various Slavic tribes like the Pommeranians, the Prussians, the Sorbs and others that ceased to exist thanks to the German drive, how will that happen? I know most of the Slavs are pagan and are not playable...except for the Russians, Poles, Bohemians, Moravians and a few others.

 

[Nikolai II]

Well, since cultural assimiliation is supposed to be in it should be enough that you as german conquer a province and then keep it around for long enough to change it's culture. That would remove slavs and replace them with germans, if the slavs are conquered.

 

[John Poole]

Well, since cultural assimiliation is supposed to be in it should be enough that you as german conquer a province and then keep it around for long enough to change it's culture. That would remove slavs and replace them with germans, if the slavs are conquered.

True that is probably really the way it happened anyway. I wonder if the Nazis realized many of their ancestors were Pagan Slavs eh? Oh well

It will be interesting to see what the driving force will be in CK for representing the Drag Nach Osten. It was more than simply conquering territory, it was the introduction of German law and culture throughout Eastern and Central Europe.

 

[Joohoo]

and the possessions in Italy

 

[Alexandru H.]

I doubt we will see migration in CK...

 

[Nikolai II]

I doubt we will see migration in CK...

I doubt migration too - but assimiliation (change) I hope is still in.

 

[Vytis]

...various Slavic tribes like the Pommeranians, the Prussians, the Sorbs and others that ceased to exist thanks to the German drive, how will that happen? I know most of the Slavs are pagan...

Prussians were not Slavs and they were alive and well in CK timespan.
Kievan Rus was already christian in the late X century so most Slavs were not pagan by the start of CK.

 

[John Poole]

Prussians were not Slavs and they were alive and well in CK timespan.
Kievan Rus was already christian in the late X century so most Slavs were not pagan by the start of CK.

I realized that the Prussians were not slavs shortly after I wrote that yes o sorry. Anyway most of the Slavs west of the Oder were pagan in this period though, even among the Poles and other christianized Slavs most of the common people were still pagans. Converting to Christianity was mainly a political move that often was very unpopular among the rank and file.

 

[unmerged(5323)]

...Also what of the various Slavic tribes like the Pommeranians, the Prussians, the Sorbs and others that ceased to exist thanks to the German drive...

Not to be a wiseass, but....the Sorbs didn`t cease to exist. They are alive and well, if only a few. And the Prussians started out as Balts not Slavs. Also it is "Drang nach Osten".

 

[Nikolai II]

Not to be a wiseass, but....the Sorbs didn`t cease to exist. They are alive and well, if only a few. And the Prussians started out as Balts not Slavs. Also it is "Drang nach Osten".

Isn't the Swedish company 'Vattenfall' trying to eradicate the sorbs by driving an open-shaft coal-mine straight through their largest (now ex-)city?

Coal-fuelled powerplants being OK for Vattenfall's eco-image as long as it's foreign coal being burned

Hmm.. topic..topic.. Would Swedens crusades/conquests in Finland qualify as Drang nach Osten or can only germans apply?

 

[Joohoo]

I think we call it "Dra åt öster" eller "dra dit pepparn växer"

 

[Raczynski]

And Germans at the Volga?
Isn`t that XVIII century?

 

[Havard]

And Germans at the Volga?
Isn`t that XVIII century?

If I'm not totally mistaken they came much later, when the (German-born) Empress Catherine II invited them to settle in the Volga region in 1763.

 

[John Poole]

If I'm not totally mistaken they came much later, when the (German-born) Empress Catherine II invited them to settle in the Volga region in 1763.

I see...I was basing that off of a map that showed the "German town law" expanding into the Ukraine. Perhaps the Don would be better

 

[John Poole]

Not to be a wiseass, but....the Sorbs didn`t cease to exist. They are alive and well, if only a few. And the Prussians started out as Balts not Slavs. Also it is "Drang nach Osten".

Yes you are right...great now this thread makes me look like a moron . Oh well. But...the Sorbs are still around? How is that possible? They have sort of not been mentioned in history for the past 1000 years or so...what have they been up to? Did they ever convert to christianity ?

 

[Demetrios]

Only a few thousand Sorbs are left, in east-central Germany near the Polish border. They haven't done much since being conquered by the Germans other than being (until recently) an oppressed minority. And yes, they converted...

 

[Archeolooginspe]

here is some more info on the Sorbs

the most famous sorb is Gottfried Wilhelm von Leibniz.

 

[Galleblære]

But...the Sorbs are still around?

I had a (former east) german roommate that wrote a paper on the sorbs, pretty interesting. So yeah, they are still hanging in there.

 

[Joohoo]

how long stretched the Drag Nch Osten?

 

[John Poole]

how long stretched the Drag Nch Osten?

The um Drang Nach Osten o ?

It started in roughly 950 when the Saxon Liudolfing Kings began to wage war against the numerous pagan Slav tribes and the Magyars on the Elbe. Its end was the defeat of the Teutonic Knights at Grunwald/Tannenburg in 1410. The Germans moved from the Elbe to Kiev and Novgorod where they formed a prominent minority of the population. They would continue to have large minorities mainly in the towns as far as Romania and Croatia in the south and the Ukraine in the east until the end of WWII ejected them out of Eastern Europe after about 500 years. Lesson: Always assimilate. If you move to Bohemia change your name to Novacek or something .

I just wondered how if this would play any role in Crusader Kings since it was such a major event in European History.