DOWs

[celedhring]

Since there are some quite well known examples of sneaky attacks during WWII, can we assume that a formal DOW is no longer a requisite for moving your troops into enemy territory? Of course, doing so would have negative effects, specially in your international relations.

 

[MacGregor]

Well, the Japenese ambassador did inform the US state department that Japan considered itself at war with the US fully 30 minutes before the first bomb fell on Pearl Harbor. It was sneaky but I appreciate the effort.

 

[Idiotboy]

Perhaps there should be some small penalty for attacking without DoW though.

 

[unmerged(3513)]

Originally posted by Idiotboy
Perhaps there should be some small penalty for attacking without DoW though.

I don't understand why there should be. I can see having a penalty if you wanted undeclared wars in EU, but in a World War II game there's no particular reason why you'd suffer a substantive penalty. Undeclared wars should certainly anger other nations, but that's not a "penalty."

The reason modern nations don't declare war is that it's unnecessary and, often, a joke. Germany did declare war on Poland before wiping it out; it was a farcical declaration based on a lie, but there it is. If HOI penalizes nations for undeclared war beyond just making other nations mad, it'll be a mistake, IMHO.

 

[Idiotboy]

Well for nothing else I fear the AI will have trouble coping otherwise. Humans are very much to sneaky bastards to not maximize any advantage you can get over the AI from it.

 

[celedhring]

Originally posted by MacGregor
Well, the Japenese ambassador did inform the US state department that Japan considered itself at war with the US fully 30 minutes before the first bomb fell on Pearl Harbor. It was sneaky but I appreciate the effort.

Wasn't it AFTER they dropped the first bomb? I think they wanted to make it before, but they made a mess with the different hour zones.

 

[Ape]

Originally posted by celedhring


Wasn't it AFTER they dropped the first bomb? I think they wanted to make it before, but they made a mess with the different hour zones.

Been a while since I read about Pearl Harbor, but if I remember correctly,
The Japanese had trouble decoding the DoW, and thus the americans decoded it earlier, and the american foreign minister actually let the japanese ambassador wait so the attack would have begun when the DoW was given to him. Or he was waiting for a complete decoding until he would admit the ambassador... anyhow it´s was actually a screw up by the japanese, if it had gone acording to the plans the DoW would have been delivered an hour before the attack, not when it had already begun.

 

[The Larch]

Maybe the first prize in "The sneakiest attack" might be Germany's Barbarossa, which, IIRC, lacked any formal declaration of war, not even a rigged one.

Bye, The Larch.

 

[unmerged(1057)]

"Sneak attacks" is part of WWII and shouldn´t be punished (more than it was anyway).

The surprise element was very important for the German plans and the attacks without DOW was a practical way to handle this.

 

[Sikker]

Exactly! There should of course be no penalty for anyone attacking without a DoW. Quite the opposite should of course be the case. If you DoW, wait a few a days, and then attack you've lost the element of surprise - which was one of the key elements of the blitzkrieg (having your enemy standing baffled, while you drive past him, surround him, cut off his supply, and watch him stumble in panic into your mob-up groups clearing up 'behind' the front).
The only 'real' DoW's were probably that of the Allied on Germany in 1939 (after Poland), and that of Germany on the US (another testimony to Hitler's brilliant strategic mind ... let's declare war on the country with largest potential war machine - that's MUST be a good idea). - And as history showed none of these DoWs ended up being really smart moves (well, not for France and Germany anyway...). (Yeeeees, I know the the Allied didn't have much of a choice, and yeeeees the US would probably have entered the war against Germany not too long after that anyway, but I am CERTAIN that you get my point).
Anyway, the point is, actual DoWing is pointless!

 

[L G]

i personally could do without dow for when i play games like Civilization 3 i just cross the borders with everything i have in a "bonzai charge" of sorts and go for peace after a few turns, but i think it will probably take much more work 2 get a peace so i think wars will go a long time, getting back on subject, i doubt many human players would officially declare war as it would give the enemy a little extra time, if much at all but i know i wont declare war but ill just cross the borders and hope for the best.....

 

[unmerged(9167)]

My army will be at the border, until the exact moment of DOW then, blitz the enemy. Hit hard and fast is my philosophy. I agree that there should be no penalty on the DOW otherwise, how can I conquer the world?

 

[unmerged(8249)]

I think thats a good idea. Take germany attacking poland for example. On the German/Polish border, the germans took prisoners out and dressed them like poles and had them play polish music. Then they were mowed down. They day later, blitzcrieg started and germany said they suffered an unprovoked attack from poland. Although im sure not many people believed it, it at least gave them a small reason to invade poland.

 

[Marcelo]

Agree with all. DOWs haven't been used often in the 20th century, and the game should reflect that!! The nature and speed of modern warfare make surprise too valuable to be easily discarded.