DoW a nation at war

[Sporally]

Before i go on with the game, i would like to know something i've heard discussed before but don't know the conclusion about.

I'm playing as UK, i'm, as you probably know, situated in India, and now Russia has DoW a small nation called Punjab. I'm not in an alliance with them or anything, but if i DoW Punjab, and, let's say, we get 2 provinces each of the 4 provinces (conquer them only). When we come to the peace talks, what will happen. Will Punjab be able to give any my conquered provinces to Russia or am i sure i'll get it?

 

[unmerged(24512)]

I think they will be able to give Russia the provinces you have conquered. What you are sure of, however, is that Russia won't be able to annex them.

The strategy of declaring war on a country your enemy is invading to prevent your enemy from gaining too much can thus be quite effective, but is better against countries with large populations. In my games as the UK, i did this twice, when Russia tried to invade Persia and Korea. When you and the AI have conquered all the provinces of a country between you, the AI usually goes for peace immediately.

 

[Sporally]

I think they will be able to give Russia the provinces you have conquered. What you are sure of, however, is that Russia won't be able to annex them.

What do you mean by "able to give Russia the provinces you have conquered" and then say they won't be able to annex it. As far as i know there are no other way to take them..?

 

[unmerged(1633)]

Ehhhh??? In the MP game I am playing, my DoW on Egypt was followed by a DoW by Sweden and also by Greece.. Greece gained 2 provinces and Sweden gained about 6 to 8... When the entirerty of Egypt was finally conquered, with each province either being owned by myself, the Swedish ofr the Greek player, I made peace, annexed them and that was that... Each country got the provinces they had conquered...

 

[Memnon]

Ok Ok Ok...

I think what Leiv meant was that if the UK hasn't made its peace deal with Punjab before Russia does, that Punjab will be able to give Russia provinces currently occupied (not conquered already, but just occupied) by the UK. I haven't ever tried it, but my guess is that you're wrong there, Leiv. Given the way other things work, my guess is that Punjab loses control over those provinces in its peace deal, and that it can only give to Russia provinces it still ownes or provicnes controlled by the Russians. That's just a guess though...

My reasoning is based on a couple of factors:

First is that when rebels take control of one of your provinces, you can't do anything with it anymore. It's as if it's part of a seperate country. There's no POP control, no ability to expand railroads or RGOs, no nuthin'; second, I've seen mutual invasions of the same country in the same war (best example being Mexico in the European Intervention) without seeing anyone getting their occupied provinces snatched away from them.

But it's just a guess.

 

[Sporally]

I think you're right Memnon.

Wwwooohhhooo.. A few months after i DoW Punjab, i get the following conclusion of the war - but without any idea of the issue discussed here.

I found out they had 6 provinces, not 4. First of i went for their capital, but suddenly it hit me - i don't have to annex it all now and risk lives due to, can't remember the name of it, new soldiers taken into service on my already occupied territories. But then i got this idea - Russia only had geographic access to 2 provinces, so i took advantage from that i occupied one of them. Luckily the Russians were a bit slow to attack, but i didn't have time to take both of the provinces they had access to But that wasn't a problem - after occupying their capital (big war bonus) and one of the provinces they had access to, Punjab asked for peace and were willing to give me to 2 provinces Russia had access to and a third province Simply perfect...

But a thanks to the devs for this little thing - Russia asked if i wanted to grant them access through my country (of course so they could get the last 3 provinces, but, no doubt, i rejected A cool thing the devs had made for this game

 

[unmerged(24512)]

But then i got this idea - Russia only had geographic access to 2 provinces, so i took advantage from that i occupied one of them. Luckily the Russians were a bit slow to attack, but i didn't have time to take both of the provinces they had access to But that wasn't a problem - after occupying their capital (big war bonus) and one of the provinces they had access to, Punjab asked for peace and were willing to give me to 2 provinces Russia had access to and a third province Simply perfect...

So let me get this straight... you say you didn't have time to take the second province they had access to? Was that because Russia was occupying it? If so, and if they gave you that same province in the peace deal, that means that i was right, and Memnon was wrong. Weeeeeee
I may have misunderstood though.

 

[unmerged(6766)]

I have two comments about this both relating to my recent game as Chile.


One: Bolivia was a stump of a nation, well hardly even a stump. It was it's capitol and one other province which was rebel controlled. I waited for years hoping that province would defect to me so I could DOW and annex them. I didn't think I could annex the 2 province country.... but I finally got tired of waiting and invaded, occupied only the capitol. I was about to go liberate the rebel province when I found that I indeed COULD annex them. Upon doing so, I gained both provinces, but the rebel province promptly declared independence as Bolivia... I finished my occupation of the province and annexed ,... so I essentially got two annexation prestige boni for the price of one DOW.


Two: As Chile, I was allied with Brazil and we were both fighting Colombia (Brazil had DOW Colombia and I joined). We each occupied a few provinces... then all of a sudden, Colombia peaced out and gave all the provinces but one to Brazil, EVEN the ones I occupied. So it is possible, but maybe only if you're in the same alliance.

(Consequently, I nevilled the provinces rightfully to me since I did most of the work).

Edit: I just remembered the same thing happened earlier in the game when we were both attacking Argentina. Argentina peaced out with us and gave all the provinces to Brazil... even three that were on my border but only one of which was occupied by me and they were nowhere near connected to Brazil. Brazil had its own enclave along the Argentinian-Chilean border I didn't mess with that one.

 

[Darkrenown]

You can annex a nation of up to 3 provinces. And you're double prestige also came with double BB in that double annex.

 

[unmerged(6766)]

You can annex a nation of up to 3 provinces. And you're double prestige also came with double BB in that double annex.

Who cares about BB! hahah...


Back to what's annoying though... as France, allied to Spain, we were attacking Sardinia-Piedmont. I had occupied about 5 provinces, Spain came and occupied one and then peaced out taking 2 provinces I had occupied, not the one they occupied... They barely did any work in this war. grrr.

 

[Sporally]

I seem to if you're in an alliance, your ally may get some of yours aswell, just like the nation under attack thinks you don't mind giving your occupied province to your ally (or maybe he was just smart :rofl: ). I think it should be impossible to get the provinces another nation has occupied unless you're in an alliance with the nation that has it occupied.

Another thing:
Wouldn't it be great if you could have some sort of a Potsdam discussion? I remember an old game called Diplomacy or something where you could go into a closed room with another nation and plan things with this nation concerning others or course . This feature would especially be good when we come to peace talk between allied nations.

Then the game would be paused, the nation would be flashed up or what to call it, and then you could "discuss" with your ally and the defeated nation who should annex what (and of course only the allied if we're talking total elimination of the nation ). This is basically how it was done at e.g. the Potsdam conference by the end of WW2 between Stalin, Churchill and Truman (or maybe Roosevelt was still alive).

 

[Galeno]

Then the game would be paused, the nation would be flashed up or what to call it, and then you could "discuss" with your ally and the defeated nation who should annex what (and of course only the allied if we're talking total elimination of the nation ). This is basically how it was done at e.g. the Potsdam conference by the end of WW2 between Stalin, Churchill and Truman (or maybe Roosevelt was still alive).

Don't need to go up to WW2. Paris 1919 was the place of another Great War, a diplomatic one. The old world was sliced in pieces: Poland was created, Romania doubled her size, Versailles Treaty "started" WW2 and Greece's Venizelos was so good as ambassador that resurrected a dead Empire, his enemy one (Turkey's nationalistic movement born out of the hungry of Greece)...

 

[Sporally]

Oh yes, that one too. I have heard about it, but knew more about Potsdam, that's why i mentioned Potsdam. But regarding the versailles treaty - the germans also got a limitation for how big their military must be in the future (which Hitler broke of course )

 

[unmerged(36419)]

Are you sure that provinces can be ceded in such a manner?

Because I've seen the AI for USA declare war on Texas to prevent annexation by Mexico, with the US gaining a province to protect Austin from being annexed.

 

[Sporally]

Um, who are you responding to?

 

[Kochtopfhelm]

AFAIK it's important who controls the capital. The one controlling the capital may choose annexation and everyone get's the provs he occupies. Even if you control 99% of the country and another one controls only the capital u are just able to get provs via warscore while he can choose to annex. This is how it works in HOI and i dont think it's different in Vicky.

 

[Sporally]

I don't really know what you mean. The capital gives a lot of war score, which is good when you're on the "discussion tabel", but he surely can't annex all other provinces. Hell, i don't even think he can annex anything, since he can't annex the capital before all other provinces are out. Well, he might be able to annex some other provinces, but i believe it can only be a few.

 

[unmerged(35361)]

The point is as I have seen I have 2 province of Abu Dhabi the UK controls the capital.
They annex,I keep my provs and thats that.

 

[Strategist]

If you are in an alliance, if you control together a 100% of the (unciv) country, the one that occupies the capital can annex, which will divide the provinces...

 

[Sporally]

So in cookie monsters situation he would have got the two provinces at the same time the UK annexed, since Abu Dhabi wouldn't have a captical any longer. I don't think he wants to say that Abu Dhabi is still a nation, which was split in two and the capital was moved until cookie monster would take the rest of Abu Dhabi.