Doomed as PLC 1481

[Burtosz]

Hi guys, I am new player in this game (barely 215 hours) that watched a lot of Youtube videos how to play this game and also many campaigns played by Florryworry and some played by BudgetMonk. I think I understand game mechanics (enough to achieve Big Blue Blob), but I don't know how to use them with 100% efficiency. My biggest struggle is diplomacy. I mean i can't get any allies that are worth a diplomatic slot... When i look at enemies of my enemies/rivals it very often show only me as an enemy. Right now I am doing a Poland campaign with a goal to just do well. It's year 1481 and i have no idea what to do. Here is a situation:

One year ago Branderburg was my enemy too (they are the emperor, they hate me, they ate Burgundy due to royal marriage and Burgundian event. What are my options now? What should I do?
P.S. My economy is pretty good

 

[sigeena]

Still pretty early in your game. AI will choose to switch rivals occasionally, so don't worry about this being a long term problem.

You can still grab a couple of useful defensive allies, such as Austria, Saxony, or Bavaria. Consider Venice as well, but be ready to drop them if Hungary drops their alliance with Venice as well. Venice is useful as long as Hungary is allied to them. Avoid England and the Iberians.

Mamelukes and France are too far to be of concern. I think the weakest rival here is Denmark. Look for opportunity to support Sweden's independence.

Biggest concern is the Brandenburg-Muscovy alliance. If Hungary joins in, it'll be a big big worry.

 

[Octavius Antony]

Just take it slow really. Your national ideas will lead to your military becoming incredibly powerful, and in the age of Reformation, you will make buckets of ducats with Poland's unique age modifier. No need to rush anything, you have everything needed to form the Commonwealth already; so you can just hold it together, improve relations with nation like Austria, and just look for easy kills when your enemies are weak.

Hungary will end up at war with the Ottos, when they do, take your piece of the pie. Denmark will have to deal with Sweden trying to be independent, when that happens, take whatever you can from him. Other than that, just try not to stretch yourself too thin and watch your aggressive expansion.

 

[tobias.mb]

Best early targets for Poland are Teuton and Livonian Orders. Letting others take a foothold there was already a mistake. Another good target is Crimea.

In your situation, it seems only the Brandenburg - Muscovy alliance can become a threat to you. You could try to get another powerful ally. France might agree if you rival Brandenburg, since it's possible that they want to take the burgundian lands. Maybe even the Ottomans could ally you, if both of you target Hungary.
Otherwise, unless Crimea allies with the Ottomans, you can safely ignore the muslims at this point.

If I were in your position, I'd try to take over Hungary. Since Austria isn't emperor and didn't get Burgundy either, they aren't really much of a threat. Keep an eye on the Ottomans. They might attack them directly or drag them in a war with Venice over their aegean islands.

 

[bbqftw]

Ok lets look at some of the mistakes here:

1) Rivaling Hungary. In general, this rules out the possibility of allying Austria early game since you are rivaling their ally (-50). You might still be able to overcome this by friendly from rival of rival with Austria, but now its not out of your hands. I think rivaling Muscovy is also a mistake if it precludes you from allying an Emperor Bburg.

I am VERY hesitant to pick rivals for this very reason as it massively reduces your diplomatic flexibility and commits you to certain actions that may not be profitable.

2) Trade position. Riga should be dead, some random dude should not be owning Memel. The Baltic node is the only strong node you have access to early game as Poland that is the foundation of your midgame outcome (unless you do some quick-kill on Ottoman strats). I realize that eating TO + LO + Riga (generally as non cob. On normal its feasible to cash out their trade league, if your micro is good though) is a lot of AE among the Germans. This is why your early alliances, if going that route, should be aimed at AE diffusal in that area. Bohemia, Brandenburg, Lubeck, Pomerania are typically the main actors in this department.

You don't have enough diplo slots? Diplo slots don't matter if you're poor, or dead otherwise. 8/4 is fine.

3) Vassalizing LO. You have 9(?) free provinces to feed Lithuania, use them. Once again if the AE is an issue you must ally the people most likely to get pissed off to defuse your AE.

Your best bet is to take out Denmark. Make defensive alliances (Austria > Bburg > Bavaria) to guard the dogpile and if Bohemia is ever in a bad war pull the trigger on Denmark without hesitation.

Then you have midgame with Muscovy + Ottomans alliances. Ideally you want to score one 100% war against Muscovy before that happens.

 

[Burtosz]

Well in my first war, where I DoW on TO and called LO there was a Pomeria on their side also with Riga. I managed to peace out Pomeria for Stolp and money without any battles, then tried to destroy TO+LO army with my 20 stack +10 (moldavia+mazovia) and Lithuanian 16 stack being nearby. They had 25k troops, same discipline as me, same tech, no difference with shock generals, no river crossing, farmlands but i rolled 0 to 9 three times in a row, so yea... Lithuania was just standing around watching me die. The victory cost me all of my manpower, Lithuania went for a debt (around 650 right now) and I could only take Danzig, Memel and Konigsberg due to AE and not having enough admin to core while sitting on call for pizza and already 8 war exhaustion, then i saw denmark and moskovy declaring on LO so I went for my piece of cake and barely secured sieges on forts. Denmark took 3 probinces and moscovy 1 with some core revocation. I was then afraid to give this land to Lithuania due to it's debt and already high war exhaustion (AI love to go with 25k stack on 10 supply limit provinces).

I am able to change Hungry from being a rival and I can rival Ottos, Mamluks, France or Bohemia. I am thinking about Bohemia because, some time ago I claimed their throne for myself but didn't even brake the alliance and they already had heir . Rivaling them would instead of Hungry would give me Bavaria+Austria alliance.

When I unrivaled Hungry, Brandenburg became valid so maybe they are the way?

@EdiT:
Just realized if I am about to be allied with Bohemia neither Austria or Bavaria want to be friends

 

[tobias.mb]

I managed to peace out Pomeria for Stolp

See that was a MAJOR mistake. Pommerania was (most likely) not co-beligerent. That means you get a ton of extra AE. It was also a HRE province, which means yet more extra AE from HRE members.
I'm sorry to say this, but to me it seems you majorly botched this game. You're probably better off learning your lessons from this game and starting a new one.

Optimally what you want to take in your first war is all of west Prussia from the Teutons and all (or at least most) of the Livonian Order. Vassalise them, if possible. If you can't take everything, make sure you cut off Denmark by taking any coastal Provinces, they could fabricate a claim on.

 

[Tavior]

I have indeed been in situations like this where most of the "major" players are all aligned against you and you are in effectively on your own.

I do have some sympathy for your pain.

I do have some suggestions.

Maybe look to England since they seem to have the same rival as you do. Especially since they rivaled Muscovy and Denmark. Even if they are horrible at invading coastline. They can help you out.

Maybe set a few of those non-rivaled country attitude to threatening which may encourage a few AI to sign an alliance treaty against them.

There is a tab that you can look at who is willing to sign alliance without having to use the cumbersome diplomacy window. Look at the top left click the macro building icon (looks like sword crossed with hammer).

Go to that tab which looks like a diplomacy icon. Go to second tab from left. Here it will list from who is most willing to sign an alliance to least willing.

Here is an older version of what it looks like. Red are all those who are not willing to sign alliance while those in green will.

 

[Vetgirig]

You need to start to integrate your vassals. Revoke the march. That will free up spots for getting allies. Then form the PLC so you can have 4 allies. A small member of HRE can bring as much as 10K troops.

Also check Moscovy and Denmark and attack as soon as one or the other won't honor a call to war. So get claims while you wait. And max out manpower and FL with fresh troops.

Remove Stolp from HRE. You will get a one time malus that will go away in time.

 

[Burtosz]

Took defensive alliances with Austria and Bavaria, attacked Crimea for 8 provinces for Lithuania (could go for 9 but then sunni coalition would be a thing), integrated LO and unfortunately I didn't saw Moldavia went disloyal with 51% (dip tech) and destroyed my double integration. While Fighting Crimea, Sweden called me for independence war. We were doing OK against Denmark, Bohemia, Pomerania and Norway. We had England on our side too. Then 40k Elan troops said that they love Danes and will fight for them and also for Calais. I went full defensive war then and even so I was on my fort in Highlands Kraków, with river crossing penalty, same tech, 10% morale from adviser, 2:1 while having 10k artillery (i got 34k, Lithuania with 20k and England with about 16k), rolled 9:0/1 serval times and lost. The good think was they had bigger loses than me and had to retreat too. About 4 months later Sweden capitulated.

I am behind in Dip tech, and my ruler is 6/0/2 42 YO hope he will die soon enough replaced with Hubsburg 6/5/6 or Bavarian 5/3/2. No better option for now ;/

Ottos declared on Mamluks and it looks like they are gonna crush them (64k MP vs 12MP and also 45k troops vs 35k)

 

[YuriiH]

Go East.
Crimea/Great Horde/Kazan, lock Muscowy from Expanding and dive into Persia => India => Malasia

 

[Burtosz]

Otto was defender of the faith so i couldn't go for Great Horde, then i saw Cruel Austrian archduke so went into Hungry and Venice who were already tired of fighting Bosnia and Serbia. During my conquest of nice gold province while i was on 87% WC Brandenburg called Muscovy so I made a peace deal with gold, war reps, humiliation and 3 provinces (gold, copper, silver). The numbers of troops was pretty even (20k more inf for Muscovy) but my friend Lithuania who i told to be supportive went to siege Brandenburg on the Burgundies provinces and I lost some battles and sieges. Then i loan up, burn my professionalism for manpower and merc up. I won some battles and made them mec up too with about 1-5k manpower. This is how it looks now:

I wonder if i should continue the war till i get something or white peace and after recovery attack them. Also there is now opportunity to attack GH due to they are fighting with ottos for some Dulkair stuff. Denmark is not my rival now and is willing to join an alliance against our common enemy Muscovy

@EdiT. Yea i know about rebels in Lithuania that must be killed

 

[holyvigil]

Brandenburg got the BI? that could be interesting.

 

[yerm]

This is pretty good play for a "new player need help" thread. The only huge mistake was taking stolp, but it's only huge because of the Brandenburgundian Inheritance which is a freak accident anyway. Normally, that AE can be dealt with by going east or south, and Brandy missions aren't scary since they are a perpetual 6pm when not Poland's ally.

My big advice is to avoid empowering the 2 biggest future threats, Ottomans and Russians. Try to win the race to Astrakhan if in any way possible, and actually silly as it sounds prioritize going the Wallachia route into Hungary. Turks seem fun now but if they start carving into Europe they get brutally hard to remove later, doubly so if they also have the newly buffed egypt and Persian wealth in a century on top of that.

Keep an eye on Denmark for potential expansion. Ideally, separate Sweden from them, even if you then eat Sweden. You will want to cut Russia off from digging into Finland, and eventually get over into the Lubeck node.

As long as you keep Muscovy/Russia and Ottomans from snowballing too much, you are actually doing fine. Brandenburg is just a temporary problem. They will eventually suffer when France starts rearing up, the reformation hits, and/or NED revolts.

 

[Burtosz]

So how about the war? Trying to get something of it or white peace?

 

[CrazyZombie]

Damn, that Muscovy AI is doing things better than my (not taking into account that thanks to PDX, it is also cheating).

 

[yerm]

So how about the war? Trying to get something of it or white peace?

I would probably white peace.

 

[magni.]

ok so if u wan't to fix your diplomatic problems in one go here is how u can chase it:

switch culture and form Prussia at tech 10
fall under Brandenburg as a PU by event. (This is to reset your past bad diplomacy)
Get the ally u wan't to have in the future supporting your independence

I wil lose 15 jeans doing so but AE needs to tick down any way

 

[tip001]

Short answer, you didnt PU Lithuania. How on earth you heretic (joking). Just restart and PU Lithuania Ignore all other stuff regarding rivals, this is most important.

 

[Burtosz]

Lol, I did PU Lithuania, took a peace option and attacked sunni guys. Now ottos challange me for war with 100k troops and 60k MP vs me with 60k no MP. Also Austria is on my side.