Don't focus too much on the early years!

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Nov 24, 2000
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Mowers said:
As this is what your thread is really about let me give some attention to it :)

The end game would be much better with the following imo:

1) random end year dependant on first republican revolution in Europe
2) A character system that radically changes state position
3) Harsh relative Restrictions (compared to EU2) on player control of tech and industry to stall development and stop ahistoric and unrealstic abuse of the economic game engine (vicky was appalling for this, a soviet style central economy in the age of total economic freedom)
4) Diplomatic AI that switches opinion by ruler (as opposed to going to -200 and staying there for 200 years)
5) Have diplomatic AI do random unexpected actions 20% of the time.
6) Have more (random) interaction between AI states
7) Have the AI recognise "power blocks" in advance and act to deter them
8) Place emphasis on zones of influence rather than zones of direct control - limit direct control and make the gameplay about controlling zones of influence and thus you gameplay dynamics and tensions that create conflict as zones of influence ebb and wane between various states and internal aspects.
9) Generic events that drastically effect industrial and trade patterns to mimick the rise and fall of trading powers rather than just the rise.
10) Have an internal domestic vicky pop/ck character relationship that is as interesting year 200 as it was in year 1 and as engaging regardless of whether you are a large or small state
11) an unstable world economy that radically changes over time drastically effecting countries and players in the medium to long term.
12) A more indepth and developed revolution/ rebellion system that effects overly large states over time.
13) Remove control over what merchants actually do and give control over the flow of trade and how its taxed and how it interfaces with your neighbours leading to trade wars and conflict.


#1 great idea

#2 & 4 very good but may cause unrelistic results if based on real people. Have religious tolerances limited reflected in monarch stats (monarch who hates a religion cannot move slider more than X amount from the left hand side of the slider).

#3 agree

#5 & 6 not sure if this does not already happen in EU2

#7 very difficult to do - especially in conjunction with #2 & 4

#8 another great idea - not sure how it could be implemented

#9 very indirectly happens in EU2 - events giving +/- to trade research

#10 very hard to do in Victoria's 85 year span - even harder over 350 years

#11 excellent

#12 wouldn't this screw Russia and maybe England? Otherwise good idea.

#13 very good idea

:)
 

Smirfy

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Your straying into the conceptual there guys, I think what is practical should be the first test for any idea. I will repeat myself again the game has to work

Presently and I can't see thing change the model will have to rely on a very physical approach to work
 
Last edited:
M

Mowers

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Smirfy said:
Your straying into the conceptual there guys, I think what is practical should be the first test for any idea. I will repeat myself again the game has to work

Presently and I can't see thing change the model will have to really on a very physical approach to work

You are right, the game has to work, it cant be so revolutionary that when it goes gold the basic fundamentals dont work because they ran out of time. But right now I am throwing out ideas due to a lack of knowledge of what is on the table and isnt, some of them will invariably be more difficult than others and that simple models may have to replace complex models of certain aspects for particular concepts and processes.
 

Skarion

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The 17th century is the most important one :)

I hope thought that the game can simulate reveloutions and so on if the domestical settings are correct when you've reached a ceratin level in infra/society/trade (whatever) of technology? (Or something like that)

To make sure you may still get problems, and earlier then expected, if you tech jump.
 

Sleepyhead

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If EUIII is going to be a good game with thie timeframe it needs to be interresting all the way through. Otherwise the end date should be in the 16th century.
 

Amadís de Gaula

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The only way of making it in the GC is feeling you have REAL enemies left. I mean, the main interest of the XVIII cent. for me in EU2 was finally conquering the world.

The ideal game should keep you checked, not with irreal revolts, but with interaction with the rest of the AI´S.

Feeling that that even if you took an historical approach and you have +/- the historical size of the country you´re playing, it was indeed a feat.

Which leads to AI behaviour, real difficulty and AI bonusses, issues I´m surprised have not got a thread yet.
 

Arilou

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1) random end year dependant on first republican revolution in Europe

Cool idea, assuming republican revolutions only start to happen in the late 18th century....

2) A character system that radically changes state position

A bit too vague, what do you mean?

3) Harsh relative Restrictions (compared to EU2) on player control of tech and industry to stall development and stop ahistoric and unrealstic abuse of the economic game engine (vicky was appalling for this, a soviet style central economy in the age of total economic freedom)

Here I agree totally: You should be allowed to (essentially) set taxes and tolls (maybe subsidies) the rest of the economy should be automated.

4) Diplomatic AI that switches opinion by ruler (as opposed to going to -200 and staying there for 200 years)

Agreed. I'd also add an AI that actively tries to counteract threats (rather than the simplistic BB model)

5) Have diplomatic AI do random unexpected actions 20% of the time.

Yeah, now and then that'd be fun :p

6) Have more (random) interaction between AI states

More interaction? Yes. Random? No.

7) Have the AI recognise "power blocks" in advance and act to deter them

100% agreed. This is crucial.

8) Place emphasis on zones of influence rather than zones of direct control - limit direct control and make the gameplay about controlling zones of influence and thus you gameplay dynamics and tensions that create conflict as zones of influence ebb and wane between various states and internal aspects.

Somewhat I agree, but remember, this was a period where pretty large territories *did* shift direct control. I'd like a harsher limit of how many "non-national" provinces you can control before you start losing money though.

9) Generic events that drastically effect industrial and trade patterns to mimick the rise and fall of trading powers rather than just the rise.

Should probably be a part of the general economic model. Though shifting trade-patterns (central asia to the indian ocean etc. etc.) should be a bit more deterministic.

10) Have an internal domestic vicky pop/ck character relationship that is as interesting year 200 as it was in year 1 and as engaging regardless of whether you are a large or small state

Would be nice, unfortunately probably unrealisitc: Could also create problems with micromanagement.

11) an unstable world economy that radically changes over time drastically effecting countries and players in the medium to long term.

Agreed.

12) A more indepth and developed revolution/ rebellion system that effects overly large states over time.

Yup, and one that is *dangerous* and not just tedious.

13) Remove control over what merchants actually do and give control over the flow of trade and how its taxed and how it interfaces with your neighbours leading to trade wars and conflict.

Agreed.

EDIT: The most fundamental thing in order to keep the end-game challenging is IMHO:

Diminishing returns for conquest: Beyond your national provinces/cultural sphere you should start incurring penalties to your income the larger you become: This doesen't mean you shouldn't be able to build a nice empire with Baden: Just that after a certain point, conquest is no longer profitable (and can even hamper you in the long run)
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