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HoustonPatrician

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I’ve tried playing a few tall Portugal games. Colonization only, some North African expansion, and every single time in this patch Spain/Castile gets a Domineering attitude towards me and breaks our alliance. I understand they get a mission PU and that causes them to behave this way but it’s annoying. I hear Paradox is moving the PU mission down the tree but I don’t think that will fix the problem. AI in this patch seems aggressively willing to break 100+ year 100 trust alliances just for the chance to PU you. I don’t mind a more aggressive AI but this is just a nuisance and basically means I’m unable to play a chill game with any nation as at any point they could go nuts and try to conquer me even if I’ve been literally friend of the century.
 
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Jespoke

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Because of where the mission is being moved to, you will be able to stop Castile from ever getting the PU CB on you by getting your hands on one of Grenada's starting provinces. Just keep troops in Ceuta, so that if they call you into war to conquer it, you can just occupy Gibraltar and refuse to transfer the occupation.

I'm personally conflicted about the AI's willingness to pursue PU's over long time friends, because they have a point when they say that a human player would usually do the exact same.
 
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HoustonPatrician

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Because of where the mission is being moved to, you will be able to stop Castile from ever getting the PU CB on you by getting your hands on one of Grenada's starting provinces. Just keep troops in Ceuta, so that if they call you into war to conquer it, you can just occupy Gibraltar and refuse to transfer the occupation.
Yea I know what I can do to stop it. I could also just take over Spain completely. That isn’t the point. I want to be able to be allied with someone without a mandatory domineering attitude appear as the result of a PU opportunity.
 
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bokorthedust

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Yea I know what I can do to stop it. I could also just take over Spain completely. That isn’t the point. I want to be able to be allied with someone without a mandatory domineering attitude appear as the result of a PU opportunity.
That is sadly no longer possible, the AI is coded to become domineering against anyone it has a PU CB on.
 
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HoustonPatrician

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That is sadly no longer possible, the AI is coded to become domineering against anyone it has a PU CB on.
Yea I noticed. I would be okay with a strong inclination toward domineering with a calculation for trust, nation strength, etc. but just a base PU opportunity=domineering attitude/break alliance seems really out of place for diplomacy in EU4.
 
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subzero12479

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Yea I noticed. I would be okay with a strong inclination toward domineering with a calculation for trust, nation strength, etc. but just a base PU opportunity=domineering attitude/break alliance seems really out of place for diplomacy in EU4.
i think it doesnt happen if they have 80+ trust with you. at least increasing my trust with castille to this value made him switch back to allied attitude in my last naples game after they got a pu cb on me.
 

PDXJon

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Yea I noticed. I would be okay with a strong inclination toward domineering with a calculation for trust, nation strength, etc. but just a base PU opportunity=domineering attitude/break alliance seems really out of place for diplomacy in EU4.
It is an inconvenience, but if you are strong enough, they won’t declare. Once they lose the casus belli, you can ally them again if you want.
 

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As somebody who likes to play Portugal tall, peacefully and in a stable alliance with Spain, I can absolutely sympathize.
The question however is: would you, playing Spain, ignore the opportunity to PU a large, wealthy Portugal just because Portugal has been such a nice ally? If the answer to that is "no", should the AI really play suboptimally just to avoid inconveniencing the player? (Of course, this is based on the premise that Spain actually has a chance to win the PU war)
In my opinion, it is not out of place for EU4 countries to be opportunistic and Machiavellian, especially if that means betraying your friends.
But then I am the kind of person that enjoys Diplomacy (the boardgame), where you will be called a "carebear" for not betraying your faithful ally when you have the chance ;)
 
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Manwe_Sulimo

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I am a big fan of this change, the AI should not be more friendly to the player than every player would be. It also makes diplomacy more fluid and realistic., in history alliances also switched as was opportune for those involved at some points. (One famous was the diplomatic revolution following the Austrian War of Succession in which the Habsburgs and French buried their 3 century old Rivalry to ally each other against Prussia, England, ...). Before it was a bit too stagnant out of rare cases were countries went Rivals or Hostile due to desiring large chunks of your territory. It also creates more historical outcomes, such as Austria (and Castile) finally pursuing their historic paths and generally the large number of Succession Wars in the EU4 timeframe.

As mentioned above the PU Casus Belli of Castile can be prevented, even in the current mission tree: you can make Aragon lose one of its mainland provinces so the mission is not completed (it requires Castile or its subject to hold all of Aragons mainland territory), with luck that can happen even without your intervention when France attacks Aragon and takes 1 or more of the border provinces, it happened (as bad luck) in my Castile game. If you don't manage it you can avoid war via getting strong allies such as England, France or Austria.

Finally, it seems currently that the switch to Domineering is happening nearly all the time. If the 80 Trust restriction already exists as mentioned that's already a good point, IIRC this also prevents the AI from choosing the player as Rival. Besides that the AI should weigh its chances, if it is totally unrealistic it should not go domineering. However, I think it should still take high risks though and try to go for the PU against larger nations if there is any chance, even if it is fairly remote.
It could also be differentiated between difficulty levels.
 
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Nostalgium

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I think there's something to be said for AI allies turning domineering if they are significantly outmatched by whoever they're attempting to domineer. I had a good laugh when Austria, who I had allied to avoid Return Territory demands, turned Domineering against my Bohemia, which had twice the military power, was also allied to France, and a much stronger economy. Alright, Vienna, you do you.

Outside of that, I like the change. It's good to see the AI actually pursue their ambitions even if they have to step over the bodies of their friends to get there.
 
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cuendillar

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That they break alliance even when weaker is nonetheless not necessarily the wrong move. After all, breaking the alliance results in a 5-year truce which the AI never breaks. At that time, the relative strength between the countries may have changed drastically.

A better reason to keep the alliance is if they're seriously threatened by another nation - Serbia probably shouldn't break their strongest alliance if the Ottomans are hostile since it may lead to an immediate invasion/annexation.
 
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Lykus Cerebros

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I think there's something to be said for AI allies turning domineering if they are significantly outmatched by whoever they're attempting to domineer. I had a good laugh when Austria, who I had allied to avoid Return Territory demands, turned Domineering against my Bohemia, which had twice the military power, was also allied to France, and a much stronger economy. Alright, Vienna, you do you.

Outside of that, I like the change. It's good to see the AI actually pursue their ambitions even if they have to step over the bodies of their friends to get there.
Yeah it's the right direction to go for it AI behavior. There should be a limit as you said, though I would put it fairly low.

In your specific situation I would say it's not the worst since France might not join at some point and the difference isnt to big. If they would ally e.g. Poland and Denmark (provided you didn't eat them) maybe they could take you on.
 
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Nostalgium

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Yeah it's the right direction to go for it AI behavior. There should be a limit as you said, though I would put it fairly low.

In your specific situation I would say it's not the worst since France might not join at some point and the difference isnt to big. If they would ally e.g. Poland and Denmark (provided you didn't eat them) maybe they could take you on.
I had indeed eaten Poland, and the difference was in the region of 50k VS 100k. I'd been using the alliance to control Austria's truces with her neighbours, so it hadn't been a great game for them, expansion-wise. So it was in fact pretty bad. :p
 
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