Domination of the Draka Mod - initial stages.

[DarkSoul1984]

I am going with the data given above which is taken from the books, the tanks were better then what the Germans had and Stirling has stated in numerous interviews that he modeled the Draka military tech off of American and British vehicles from the 60s to the 90s.



I don't recall the books saying the Janissaries not having T6 Assault Rifles. In fact I do recall the book saying that ALL of the Draka Military units were refitted with the T6 prior to 1939...if you could give me a page reference to read this bit, then I can adjust my notes.

Actually there was a quote from the book address this, here let me post it:

Actually, your last posted excerpt was what I was trying to get across in terms of German vs. Drakkan logistical capacity.

As for the assault rifle, you are correct. I was remembering Eric von Shrakenburg's remarks about the paratroopers wanting the lighter weapon which the rest of the military had refused for various reasons. So, specifically the weapon he mentions was available only to airborne units.

As for the armour and vehicles, it is fine to model it. Hell, you can take a kit and slap a hot rod body on a VW bug engine. There is a lot more to the M-1 Abrams than a big gun and sloped armour. Was the Domination using a better tank than the Germans? Yes. Did it remain that way throughout the war? No.

My view as to how we should try to model it in game is to give the Domination access to 1941 tanks and heavy tanks, 1940 AT, 1938 ART, and so on and so forth. Basically, we cherry pick their starting techs. They start WAY far behind in terms of navy and even the decrypt/encrypt techs maybe. They should probably have access to the Soviet land doctrines and we might even consider making Civilian units a special unit given via event (say one for every ten Jannisary units?).

But I'm definitely not of the opinion that they should have modern late 20th century weaponry. If they did, it is disgraceful it took them so long to beat Europe.

 

[Karagin]

Actually, your last posted excerpt was what I was trying to get across in terms of German vs. Drakkan logistical capacity.

As for the assault rifle, you are correct. I was remembering Eric von Shrakenburg's remarks about the paratroopers wanting the lighter weapon which the rest of the military had refused for various reasons. So, specifically the weapon he mentions was available only to airborne units.

As for the armour and vehicles, it is fine to model it. Hell, you can take a kit and slap a hot rod body on a VW bug engine. There is a lot more to the M-1 Abrams than a big gun and sloped armour. Was the Domination using a better tank than the Germans? Yes. Did it remain that way throughout the war? No.

My view as to how we should try to model it in game is to give the Domination access to 1941 tanks and heavy tanks, 1940 AT, 1938 ART, and so on and so forth. Basically, we cherry pick their starting techs. They start WAY far behind in terms of navy and even the decrypt/encrypt techs maybe. They should probably have access to the Soviet land doctrines and we might even consider making Civilian units a special unit given via event (say one for every ten Jannisary units?).

But I'm definitely not of the opinion that they should have modern late 20th century weaponry. If they did, it is disgraceful it took them so long to beat Europe.

Hey I think we are reaching a middle ground...okay you are correct they don't need to have the best of the best, again though Stirling has stated that he mixed ideas from th 80s/90s into using a lot of the tech the world would have 60s, moving it back to the 40s and adding his ideas on how tech might have progressed, ie steam power, which is a big theme in all of his books, computers akin to the Babagge (I think I got the name right) using punch cards versus what we know etc...

I was thinking 42 tech level for their tanks and aeroplanes, arty would be 41, navy wouldn't be that advanced, I would say on par with Italy or Sweden of the same time frame, some big ships, I could see them building a carrier, just to do it so as not to lose face or seem weak. Citizen units would be the cream of the nation, yet at the same time would cost a lot, that is something we can model, as to what units to use for them, I am not sure what would work, maybe the Marine tech tree would work...any ideas?

 

[DarkSoul1984]

Hey I think we are reaching a middle ground...okay you are correct they don't need to have the best of the best, again though Stirling has stated that he mixed ideas from th 80s/90s into using a lot of the tech the world would have 60s, moving it back to the 40s and adding his ideas on how tech might have progressed, ie steam power, which is a big theme in all of his books, computers akin to the Babagge (I think I got the name right) using punch cards versus what we know etc...

Actual computers were the Alliance strongpoint, which is why I'm of the opinion the Domination should be behind them in terms of computing machines and encrypt/decrypt tech. The transistor is invented in 1939 in Ontario according to the appendices.

Naval, physics, and associated stuff are the Alliance strongpoints while armour, biology, and certain areas of chemistry are the Domination's strongpoints.

Unfortunately, beyond tech teams and techs there isn't really a way to model this sort of stuff in the game.

I was thinking 42 tech level for their tanks and aeroplanes, arty would be 41, navy wouldn't be that advanced, I would say on par with Italy or Sweden of the same time frame, some big ships, I could see them building a carrier, just to do it so as not to lose face or seem weak. Citizen units would be the cream of the nation, yet at the same time would cost a lot, that is something we can model, as to what units to use for them, I am not sure what would work, maybe the Marine tech tree would work...any ideas?

This will be hard to model, but is one of the reasons I am not in favour of the Domination having a vast superiority in terms of air force:

Technological developments 1940–1943: millimetric wave radar. Reaction-jet fighters in Domination, Germany, U.K., U.S. Helicopters deployed for observation, casualty evacuation by Draka, U.S., Germany. Draka test prototype tiltrotor VTOL transport, VTOL jet with plenum-chamber boost. Fuel-cell powered submarines by Germany, U.S. All-transistor programmable digital computer (U.S., 1943); first nuclear power reactors, plutonium (Domination 1941, U.S. 1942). Long-range liquid fuel rockets, Germany. Television-guided glide bombs, radar-guided cruise missiles (U.S. Both crude, but useable.)

As for the infantry, I think we should probably make them country specific in terms of "special units." We can create a sort of "guerilla" tree like TRP has, but make it the Jannisary unit for the Domination or we can make it the Citizen (I've been using the wrong term the whole time) unit.

The Domination's advantage in terms of armour and mechanization should, ideally, wear down over time so that in the end it isn't that they are individually superior in all forms to what the Alliance is fielding; it is their ability to keep them supplied in such numbers that makes them the weapon of choice.

Although the Domination doesn't use foot infantry (very few really do), so any thoughts on that? Even the Jannisary units are motor-rifle divisions.

 

[cplhicks]

I've compiled a progress release to show that work is being done. I've migrated the mod to the 1.3 beta patch for Armageddon. I've also incorporated some elements from nomonhan's cold war mod with his permission and did a preliminary test to make sure the existing scenarios still work.

Some event progress has been made, but I'm still running into trouble all over. The AI still can't fight its way out of a paper bag. The 1941 freeze still happens. Italian events don't fire like they should. Hopefully this will spur some new interest in chasing down the elusive bugs so we can get rolling.

Anyone who wants to try it, consider this a semi-public semi-playable alpha. Shoot me a PM if interested. Everyone I've emailed before, check your email.

Down the road, I plan to tweak nomonhan's tech tree to fit the books up through the invasion of India and the protracted struggle. Suggestions are welcome on what's what. What's in there now is not modified in any way.

 

[unmerged(66346)]

@cplhicks : Better if you just send me new updates I'll upload them so everyone can try it.

http://www.filedropper.com/dominationofdraka3-22-09

 

[cplhicks]

Thanks for uploading it, Narakir.

Karagin, your email bounced back at me, said it was too large for the inbox, but that doesn't look like much of a problem anymore.

 

[Karagin]

Thanks for uploading it, Narakir.

Karagin, your email bounced back at me, said it was too large for the inbox, but that doesn't look like much of a problem anymore.

Hey try again...I will clean out some of the stuff...

 

[cplhicks]

This is the error I'm getting:

message size 10949618 exceeds size limit 10485760 of server

Looks like you'll need to get it from Narakir's link if possible.

 

[Karagin]

This is the error I'm getting:

message size 10949618 exceeds size limit 10485760 of server

Looks like you'll need to get it from Narakir's link if possible.

Odd...its a 8Meg file...I have gotten video files bigger then that before...oh well...I am now downloading it.

 

[cplhicks]

By removing some Soviet lend-lease events, I've solved the february 1941 freeze bug. Things aren't 100% perfect yet, during a Barbarossa run, the Italian carve-up events fired, but only for the Domination, not Germany. Yugoslavia wound up allying with the Domination, and was swallowed by Italy. The Soviets allied with Britain, and the Domination and Italy have been fighting a long and protracted war in the Balkans. Meanwhile, the Draka are at war with the Allies, which means that they're slowly chipping away at the Soviet Union and India while I'm pressing the Soviets as Germany. Japan has hardly moved an inch, they just seem to be division stacking in China, while leaving the Dutch East Indies and the Philippines alone.

Also on the plus side, some more minor bugs have been fixed, but a few major ones still linger. There should be an incremental update within the next few days. It's at least playable now, even if some weird alliance stuff does happen. I'll see what I can do about it.

 

[Karagin]

By removing some Soviet lend-lease events, I've solved the february 1941 freeze bug. [snip] Japan has hardly moved an inch, they just seem to be division stacking in China, while leaving the Dutch East Indies and the Philippines alone.

Also on the plus side, some more minor bugs have been fixed, but a few major ones still linger. There should be an incremental update within the next few days. It's at least playable now, even if some weird alliance stuff does happen. I'll see what I can do about it.

I have had it with the Japanese AI. I thought I had it fixed, no more stacking on island, so I am playing as the US, to find that while they (Japan) is not stacking millions of troops in islands that make up the Philippines or the East Indies, they have gone and dumped them on the small minor island. Or Taiwan gets hordes of infantry...I am starting to think a complete re-write is needed to get the AI to get the hint and not stack more the a few division in anyone one province, if a set limit is reached, then it moves them to another province...

Yes odd alliances do happen. I have seen England stop fighting Germany, and go after Brazil. The randomness keeps you guessing and forces you to take all the actions into account.

Now if we can convince Russia not to declare war on the Draka, we might have it closer to the book...

I can not wait to get home to my desktop computer and time to work on things.

 

[Karagin]

Has anyone fixed the Spy issue?

That seems to be a new bug or problem, some nations can send spies, others as the human player (and some times as run by the AI) seems to CTD when an attempt is made to send spies...

 

[cplhicks]

Has anyone fixed the Spy issue?

That seems to be a new bug or problem, some nations can send spies, others as the human player (and some times as run by the AI) seems to CTD when an attempt is made to send spies...

Are you running the ARM 1.3 beta patch? I've intended the newest version to run on that, I imagine you'll get some weird results otherwise.

As for the AI, it appears I failed to pack in even what RandallW did, so I'm operating a pretty schizophrenic setup right now. One more thing to add to the next version. This one was put together in a bit of a hurry, I'm afraid.

 

[Karagin]

Are you running the ARM 1.3 beta patch? I've intended the newest version to run on that, I imagine you'll get some weird results otherwise.

As for the AI, it appears I failed to pack in even what RandallW did, so I'm operating a pretty schizophrenic setup right now. One more thing to add to the next version. This one was put together in a bit of a hurry, I'm afraid.

I am talking about the one before all the ARM patches came out...this was back with the 1.3 DD version, seems somewhere along the line the DoD stopped being able to send spies to anyone, and results ended up being a crash to desktop.

The AI is schizophrenic to start with...all we are doing is adding to it...

 

[cplhicks]

I've done a little investigating on why the Japanese AI gets hamstrung.

Darksoul and I agreed that a water connection to Japan from Korea would make it easier for the AI to put troops onto the Asian mainland rather than inevitably clumping them in Japan proper, which has turned out to be true. By 1940, the AI has placed around 150 divisions on the mainland, but doesn't have the TC to supply them. Used TC is 573/475.

Would the AI refrain from making further attacks into Burma, Malaya, Borneo, etc. due to low TC, or is it something else?

Assuming it is low TC that's causing this, what's the solution? The most obvious solution I can think of is to remove the Korean water connection and supply the Chinese divisions by sea, but that would inevitably result in most of the Army being kept in the home islands. Second option is to raise the IC overall, which is a major undertaking and would greatly unbalance the region. Third option is to move the capital to Peking, which would shorten the supply chain, but create all sorts of weirdness that I can't foresee right now. Fourth and last option is to raise the Japanese TC by event to an artificially high level.

Thoughts? Am I way off base assuming that TC is even the real problem?

 

[unmerged(66346)]

I don't know if it's a good idea, it also may look a bit silly but we could make an event that moves the capital of Japan from Tokyo to Beijing every three or six months this could perhaps allow the AI to stack enough supplies in the mainland but that's a bit weird I admit.

Second idea is to allow to AI to cheat by giving it enough extra free TC with an event at the beginning of the game.

 

[Karagin]

I've done a little investigating on why the Japanese AI gets hamstrung.

Darksoul and I agreed that a water connection to Japan from Korea would make it easier for the AI to put troops onto the Asian mainland rather than inevitably clumping them in Japan proper, which has turned out to be true. By 1940, the AI has placed around 150 divisions on the mainland, but doesn't have the TC to supply them. Used TC is 573/475.

Would the AI refrain from making further attacks into Burma, Malaya, Borneo, etc. due to low TC, or is it something else?

Assuming it is low TC that's causing this, what's the solution? The most obvious solution I can think of is to remove the Korean water connection and supply the Chinese divisions by sea, but that would inevitably result in most of the Army being kept in the home islands. Second option is to raise the IC overall, which is a major undertaking and would greatly unbalance the region. Third option is to move the capital to Peking, which would shorten the supply chain, but create all sorts of weirdness that I can't foresee right now. Fourth and last option is to raise the Japanese TC by event to an artificially high level.

Thoughts? Am I way off base assuming that TC is even the real problem?

I played around with adding more transports and increasing the Infrastructure as well as going with a higher IC both in Korea and Japan, trying to stick to Stirling's comments that there is more industrial areas etc around the world. No luck on getting the AI to stop stacking on island.

I am thinking of making changes in what the Japan AI considers prioities and such. Australia should be one as would going after Hawaii and possible the West Coast. Once I think the AI considers Hawaii important it will keep forces around it and then with another set of high value targets it might move after them. Noting this would also require the US AI to be changed to make the Japanese the number one threat instead of Germany...kind of sucks having the Allies launch Operation Torch on North Africa, just because the AI feels it needs to...one idea would be turn Torch into landings in Australia to push out the Japanese and then jump into New Guinea and the fighting around there as well as the big push into Indonesia and up into the Philippines on ward to Japan...

 

[cplhicks]

So I've reintroduced the Siamese collaboration events in addition to some free TC, that should give Japan some impetus to move southward. I did take over Japan for a couple of months and force a landing in Malaya and Java, and the AI is still moving eastward now that I've switched back to Ireland for hands-off.

Germany and the Draka's carve-up of Italy is still bugged, but now Italy will properly DOW Greece in 1939.

Once I've got the Italian carve-up fixed, I'll see about further tweaking Japan.

 

[DarkSoul1984]

Ok guys, sorry I've been incommunicado for so long. Right now I'm trying to solve the Pacific island stacking issue and think I might have it with ai switches. It just requires some testing and a bit more work. I'll be out of communication for about another week, but it should be set for testing when I get back.

 

[Karagin]

Ok guys, sorry I've been incommunicado for so long. Right now I'm trying to solve the Pacific island stacking issue and think I might have it with ai switches. It just requires some testing and a bit more work. I'll be out of communication for about another week, but it should be set for testing when I get back.

Would be very interested in this. I have found that having a garassion on some of the islands seems to help stop the AI from stacking large number of divisions, but it doesn't end the issue. Now if Japan would stop invading Haiti and the DomRep...we could have some reasonable battles fought over the islands and such...