What should that supposed to mean?
And the speed of troops has much with the battle system. Since with the battles lasting longer there, the units move with increased speed to make up the lost time in the battle.
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What should that supposed to mean?
And the speed of troops has much with the battle system. Since with the battles lasting longer there, the units move with increased speed to make up the lost time in the battle.
Really they weren't? Are you sure you read the same books I did? Assault rifles, sloped armor tanks carrying 120mm guns with AP rounds similar to Sabot rounds, APCs being all tracked and in covered. Fighters that rivialed anything the Germans had, plus they (the Draka) were pushing the devolopement of all kinds of things, they had nukes roughly the same as the US, where using helicopters in battle before the Eurasian war ends, they also were using better radios and such then the Germans etc..
The game may not allow for the move advanced tech to be fully shown, but one can put it this way, the tech of the Draka was on par with 1960s technology, they had this in their version of WW2, so yes they were 20 years ahead in some areas and others they went down a different path, more steam power ran vehicles and such, better industrial out put do to many factors, large scale projects that gave more to the nation then took away...
Really what experts? I think you are again missing the point, the books are what ifs and their possible out comes, telling us it couldn't happen isn't going to change the outcome of the mod, again we are taking what the books give as canon since it is all we have to go off of, and with that in mind, we are working with a game that while can be modified, it is not a simple cut and paste and be done with it.
As for your experts, I have heard some say that England should not have held on to her Empire for as long as she did and I have heard the same experts tell us all that something isn't true only to be proved wrong later on...so let's leave out the folks who only goal in life is to rip someone's work to shreds because they don't happen to like it.
Siberia is big, and you complain about the timeline being unrealistic and yet you want us to implement a system to allow the armies (not single companies or battalions), to be able to cross all of the mixed terrain types in less then a years time, no matter the weather etc...
Sorry but I am going to vote NO on this idea of borrowing this item from World In Flames.If the speeds need tweaking then its' something that should be brought up to the folks at Paradox and their team that mods the vanilla game, since I am willing to bet its' balanced across the board for all nations.
Karagin-Well I don't see any other way for Draka to win the war, except if you change the AI to mass infantry building. But this would mess up the supply system once a big enough quantity has been reached (some 400 divisions). WIF battle system would benefit from system (And you cant say until you didn't tried it. I will test it when I have time).
And you should really read this trough http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draka from word to word (Especially the last part) and try to combine it with any history knowledge you have (Or don't have).
And you should really read this trough http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draka from word to word (Especially the last part) and try to combine it with any history knowledge you have (Or don't have).
Just a few thoughts here...
There may be some partial solutions to the logistics problems that we haven't yet explored. For one thing, conventional gasoline and diesel engines were not in widespread use in ground vehicles. Trucks ran on a distillate, which I understand to be a refined product of either coal or petroleum, which would have allowed both the Germans and the Draka to have a heavily mechanized supply chain, infrastructure permitting. Germany never (to my knowledge) had a shortage of coal during the war, and the Draka would not have lacked for either one. It stands to reason that the Germans would have put the army engineers to work building at least one major rail line into Russia for supply reasons, and we know the Draka would have had no qualms about putting serfs to destructive labor doing the same once war breaks out.
So here's what I propose...a net increase in starting infrastructure for the Domination's asian provinces beyond what RandallW already did, with events for both Germany and the Draka to increase it further based on territorial achievements, which would do wonders for supply efficiency of both sides, hopefully speeding up the campaign. Additionally, events following the Anschluss for Germany to gain distillate plants in several cities, which would cause them to produce oil. Thoughts?
There may be some partial solutions to the logistics problems that we haven't yet explored. For one thing, conventional gasoline and diesel engines were not in widespread use in ground vehicles. Trucks ran on a distillate, which I understand to be a refined product of either coal or petroleum, which would have allowed both the Germans and the Draka to have a heavily mechanized supply chain, infrastructure permitting. Germany never (to my knowledge) had a shortage of coal during the war, and the Draka would not have lacked for either one. It stands to reason that the Germans would have put the army engineers to work building at least one major rail line into Russia for supply reasons, and we know the Draka would have had no qualms about putting serfs to destructive labor doing the same once war breaks out.
So here's what I propose...a net increase in starting infrastructure for the Domination's asian provinces beyond what RandallW already did, with events for both Germany and the Draka to increase it further based on territorial achievements, which would do wonders for supply efficiency of both sides, hopefully speeding up the campaign. Additionally, events following the Anschluss for Germany to gain distillate plants in several cities, which would cause them to produce oil. Thoughts?
The assault rifles had problems of their own; firing a smaller calibre to decrease the cost of manufacturing ammunition.
The tanks might have had 120 mm cannon and sloped armour, but they still had mechanical sights, internal combustion engine, etc. In the second or third book where the Finn infiltrates the estate in France, the nun (Marie I think her name was) has a flashback to helping German soldiers escape after a battle in Poland and she describes the weaponry used. They had practically the same weaponry at the time but the Draka had more of it.
The Germans were using jet aircraft within a year after the Domination attack.
And when you get to the third or fourth book, you see that the Domination is actually severely handicapped in their technological pursuits by their rigid doctrine/dogma and complete lack of originality.
And then when you consider the fact that the Jannisary units were the bread and butter of the Domination forces, I really don't support jacking the Domination's tech level up.
I actually agree on this one. Some things do need dates adjusted for the timeline's sake, but all of the major belligerents were using jet aircraft by 1943, and the general level of technological progress was both ahead and behind of what we saw in OTL. I'm starting to think Citizen divisions need to be granted by event in a similar manner to how many mods handle SS divisions. Let the players build the serf divisions to their hearts content, but the real line-breakers can be few and far between.
The speed also makes it possible to rush a division from halfway across Siberia to the battle of Stalingrad in less than a month.
And unit speed has nothing to do with battle system in that you modify the unit speed independent of the battle system. Just because they work "together" in WiF doesn't mean they are somehow intricately tied together.
The Germans did vastly improve the infrastructure in the Russian territory they conquered. If you remember that German Lt Whatshisname commented on that while eating butter the day the Domination attacked the Germans in the Caucasus.
Although, instead of making every province like 60-80% INFRA, why not just make major "avenues" on up to the front to try to simulate highways. It will also help improve movement speed for divisions.
I had forgotten that, actually. I was proposing an unbroken string of 100% provinces from Germany to the front anyhow, while leaving the rest (and maybe the initial frontline itself) in the 60-80% range.
Well they are tied together in a way since with battles lasting longer, the units allso move faster.
Okay since we are going to say the Hond 3s aren't better then the other tanks in this time here is the info on them:
And here is the info on the Holbars T-6 Assault Rifle:
IF some of you don't have a copy of the paper back version of Marching Through Georgia, which had the nice appendiexies in the back of it, as well as info at the beginning of the chapters, you may want to go to a used book store and get a copy as well as the other two main novels, Under The Yoke and Stone Dogs. They have more info in the back of them as well.
Here is another part of the Draka Wiki:
Delex, I have seen the Draka win, without massive infantry armies and I have seen them lose with them, it all depends on what chances the AI takes or doesn't and how quick you the player are to take advantage of things or not make a many mistakes as the AI. As for the second part of you comment, I think you need to read Stirlings quote again and take it to heart.
The Draka changed their laws about serfs, that is made very clear in the novels, and given that this a topic, best left to PMs or email or the forums that cover this, let's drop it.
Again I will state that we are using the book as it gives things, adjustments will be made as needed to keep balance for the game, but we are not here to fix things in that we change who owns what, who wins or loses or who is right or wrong in the Draka timeline. If anyone here doesn't like the way Stirling wrote the books, tell him that, get him to make the changes or see his comment made in the Wiki article.
Now for the record I am not calling anyone an idiot, I am point out what the author himself has said on the subject of his own work.
It is also clear that the Draka had better tech then their neighbors, not super tech, just better. They also keep their populations under tighter controls then their neighbors, they used an army made of hammers (the Janissaries) and spears (Citizen Force units) and they used them to break other nations. That is made very clear in the books, if you don't agree with then great, but again we need to stick to the book to get the basic scenario done, once it is done, then you or anyone else can have a scenario setup that has the Draka getting beat by pink bunnies with drums, or mod the whole thing to your hearts content, but please lets get the basic mod done, covering what is in the books and then we can move on from there in all directions.
And here is the info on the Holbars T-6 Assault Rifle:
IF some of you don't have a copy of the paper back version of Marching Through Georgia, which had the nice appendiexies in the back of it, as well as info at the beginning of the chapters, you may want to go to a used book store and get a copy as well as the other two main novels, Under The Yoke and Stone Dogs. They have more info in the back of them as well.
Here is another part of the Draka Wiki:
Delex, I have seen the Draka win, without massive infantry armies and I have seen them lose with them, it all depends on what chances the AI takes or doesn't and how quick you the player are to take advantage of things or not make a many mistakes as the AI. As for the second part of you comment, I think you need to read Stirlings quote again and take it to heart.
The Draka changed their laws about serfs, that is made very clear in the novels, and given that this a topic, best left to PMs or email or the forums that cover this, let's drop it.
Again I will state that we are using the book as it gives things, adjustments will be made as needed to keep balance for the game, but we are not here to fix things in that we change who owns what, who wins or loses or who is right or wrong in the Draka timeline. If anyone here doesn't like the way Stirling wrote the books, tell him that, get him to make the changes or see his comment made in the Wiki article.
Now for the record I am not calling anyone an idiot, I am point out what the author himself has said on the subject of his own work.
It is also clear that the Draka had better tech then their neighbors, not super tech, just better. They also keep their populations under tighter controls then their neighbors, they used an army made of hammers (the Janissaries) and spears (Citizen Force units) and they used them to break other nations. That is made very clear in the books, if you don't agree with then great, but again we need to stick to the book to get the basic scenario done, once it is done, then you or anyone else can have a scenario setup that has the Draka getting beat by pink bunnies with drums, or mod the whole thing to your hearts content, but please lets get the basic mod done, covering what is in the books and then we can move on from there in all directions.
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I don't see the need for this system to be used. Unit movement is done well enough and some already consider it gamy as is currently modeled to begin with. I don't see the benefit or need to increase it just to allow something to sail across an entire continent in less then a years time. What is there to balance this out and make it so it can't be exploited? I am just not seeing this as something we need to worry about or work on.
You just fear change thats all (And how much you fear it lol).
And you are the kinda guy that makes everything that suits your argument, you can say that everything is made per the book but if it comes to a case you wil also turn it around, but in that case draka must have have germany 1944 techs (In year 1936) and unlimited resources and techioonlogicaly advantage and an extra land doctrine which givves them bonuses beyond all limits (If this is made directly per the book). Drakak is a nation that has to lose no matter what, since its victory is unresalistic (Thats why they allways lose).
No one has said that. Cplhicks and I are of the opinion that the Hond wasn't equivalent to late 20th century tech and that throughout the War, the Allies and Germans caught up in technology, which the book says.
Great, because the book says the Citizen units were rather limited and were the only ones with the assault rifles. The key difference between the German and Domination armies were the sheer size of their logistical capacities. The Domination went to war with 10 times the number of mechanized units that the Germans did because they waited and planned, while Hitler felt he needed to built his thousand year Reich in a decade.
Well, not completely equivalent. Obviously the hull form and size of the main armament are akin to a 1980s tank, but fire control and communication are going to be 1940s vintage. It's easier to destroy a Tiger with a 120mm gun than an 88mm, but you need to be able to hit it first, and before you can hit it, it helps to know where it is. Draka tank drivers and gunners aren't going to be any better at either of those than their opponents due to the 1940s fire control. Additionally, better tank armor is still not a substitute for tactics. One Hond isn't going to plow through an entire platoon of Tigers by itself either.
This also assumes that the Germans were using tanks identical to the ones seen in OTL, Marching Through Georgia tells us that they began fitting superior Soviet tank bodies with the 88mm/L56 gun, and were also fielding 150mm assault guns built on the same Soviet chassis. We can also assume they weren't using gasoline or diesel engines, but rather the more reliable steam engines used in trucks. Vehicles would be slower, or at least slower to accelerate, but generally more reliable, which would be another benefit to nearly everyone fighting in hostile terrain. This is to say nothing of what the Germans would have come up with without Hitler's meddling after Canaris had him assassinated.
I'm not sure it's 10x, but the Draka did have a generally unlimited amount of manpower available compared to the Germans, whose base was very finite. Even the Draka had a finite number of factories, however. There was a reason they waited as long as they did to attack Germany.
I am going with the data given above which is taken from the books, the tanks were better then what the Germans had and Stirling has stated in numerous interviews that he modeled the Draka military tech off of American and British vehicles from the 60s to the 90s.
I don't recall the books saying the Janissaries not having T6 Assault Rifles. In fact I do recall the book saying that ALL of the Draka Military units were refitted with the T6 prior to 1939...if you could give me a page reference to read this bit, then I can adjust my notes.
Actually there was a quote from the book address this, here let me post it:
Good points, the Leopard, the one you mentioned above, which was the KV1 chassis with a Tiger designed turret on it, according to Stirling could be compared to the American M48 tank of the late 50s/60s. Also see my posting before this.
I recall one of the appendixes covering this or making mention of how large the Draka military was...let me look through the books again....