Doesn't look as good...

[unmerged(51383)]

Vicky had her pluses and her minuses. I enjoyed it, the best I think not.

I think the real issue is that people are so use to a larger, full world they want to planet Roman or Punic colonis in North America. I know this what everyone is itching for but guess what, it is not going to happen.

Some complain that the game will not be historical enough then you hear complaints that the map is too small and the time frame is too short. IMO, there will be an add on to boast the game to the Empire years. The map will stay the same because the Romans were not interested in India, nor China. They just wanted their goods, the Romans knew from Alexander that they could not conquer and hold all that land. And the full world, that is not going to happen. None of the primary cultures really had a naval unit that could make it NA much less Iceland. They may have known the world was round, but they could careless.

I know I am going to hear people say there is evidence that so and so was here and I am no going to disagree, but in a whole, the Romans cared about Europe and North Africa.

If I were a Roman emperor, I would try to play all the world. Another one might want to play historical.

 

[unmerged(37697)]

I am fairly positive that the Britons traded tin with the Carthaginians for sure and I think the Greeks too...

Yes, this is a fact. Cornish tin merchants traded with ancient Greece, suggesting that they must have traded closer to home as well.

 

[Cercatore]

Very short? More than 200 years, maybe 250 or even 300? That's very short? News to me.

Smaller map? Not much smaller than CK.

No historical events? Well, yes, a bit of a shock, but that was EU3.

To me, Rome must be seen as a stand-alone game. It must be treated differently from EUs 1-3, which cover roughly the same period. Rome is like CK--its own period and thus a wholly distinct animal.

Eu2 have 400yr... Vic 80, Hoi2 7 ( but is different ), EU3 only 350 + 20 with Espansion ( NA is a patch... ).

CK isn't a good game as EU2.

No historical events isn't important, for me.

I hope that Rome is better than Eu3... but i'm not sure about it

 

[Sir Humphrey]

CK isn't a good game as EU2.

Thats comparing chalk and cheese. They seek to be fundamentally different games.

 

[oak]

I think the map doesn't need to be bigger, it needs more provinces.

 

[Sute]{h]

Thats comparing chalk and cheese. They seek to be fundamentally different games.

Funny. This seems to be the standard reply to anyone comparing any game to any other game. Considering the fact that both CK and EU2 are build on the same engine a comparison might be more valid than say a comparison of EU2 and Half-Life. Which games could CK or EU2 be compared to in your opion?

 

[comagoosie]

I say we wait for wednesdays to learn of new things and judge when the game comes out. You might be surprised.

 

[unmerged(12995)]

I personally am not really much of a fan of the transition to 3D, it seems less well...good 3D. When you have the 2D map you can imagine like your some president or something looking down on a map - when it's 3D, you can imagine your...playing a game.

Also I see no real benifit of 3D in the Paradox games aside from the "oooh 3D" factor.

Seeing that the camera view of the last dev diary seems to give us a map at 2D, can we ask the developpers an option to see the units as a 'false 2D' as in EU2?
Best of two worlds: 3D for graphics hungry, 2D for conservative wargamers.

 

[Sir Humphrey]

Considering the fact that both CK and EU2 are build on the same engine a comparison might be more valid than say a comparison of EU2 and Half-Life.

In terms of actual game mechanics, the two are quite different. One is dynastical, the other territorial building with little character usage.

 

[Demerit]

what the game is lacking is the map, provinces, and nations.

map- it is not large enough, it is about the same size as Rome: total war map. Which most people know, is bad. Why is this?

nations- some of the most important nations of the time do not appear here.

Selucides- more than half their empire is not on the map, are they just going to be given just some of their provinces and just pretend somethings not wrong?

Bactrians- classic eastern nation that could be very fun to play as

Parthians- creates the Sassanids, classic enemy of the Roman Empire

etc

provinces- UM EXCUSE ME! Greece is not 4 some odd nations.

Asia Minor was a whole host of different countries at this time.

Sicily is TWO provinces. Wheres the nation of Syracuse? You can hop from Carthage to Sicily

I question many of you guys here, you go "OOOO the map is pretty " and forget the fundamentals of games like this, the way you become the empires, the way it takes you back to another time. Why do you think mods like Europa Barbarorum get so popular? Why are the maps expanded on most great mods? Stop selling out for graphics. Who cares if the Alpha is pretty, all I see is a map that was created for the "general gamer" with some green splashed around.

This is not a Paradox game, this is a Creative Assembly game without the real time strategy fighting.

 

[Woody Man]

Relax.

 

[th3freakie]

what the game is lacking is the map, provinces, and nations

EU3, and especialy EU2 Map Mods have showed us that more provinces do not equal more fun. And your references to number of provinces and EB don't quite match either. Sicily is 3 provinces in EB (last I played, 1.0) and Greece is about 6. That's not very representative either, but the mod is still hellish fun.

Finaly, relax. All Pdox games are rough diamonds waiting to be turned into the finer stuff

 

[coreymas]

what the game is lacking is the map, provinces, and nations.

map- it is not large enough, it is about the same size as Rome: total war map. Which most people know, is bad. Why is this?

nations- some of the most important nations of the time do not appear here.

Selucides- more than half their empire is not on the map, are they just going to be given just some of their provinces and just pretend somethings not wrong?

Bactrians- classic eastern nation that could be very fun to play as

Parthians- creates the Sassanids, classic enemy of the Roman Empire

etc

provinces- UM EXCUSE ME! Greece is not 4 some odd nations.

Asia Minor was a whole host of different countries at this time.

Sicily is TWO provinces. Wheres the nation of Syracuse? You can hop from Carthage to Sicily

I question many of you guys here, you go "OOOO the map is pretty " and forget the fundamentals of games like this, the way you become the empires, the way it takes you back to another time. Why do you think mods like Europa Barbarorum get so popular? Why are the maps expanded on most great mods? Stop selling out for graphics. Who cares if the Alpha is pretty, all I see is a map that was created for the "general gamer" with some green splashed around.

This is not a Paradox game, this is a Creative Assembly game without the real time strategy fighting.

Feel free to show your dissatisfaction by not purchasing the game...

Corey

 

[Raczynski]

EU3, and especialy EU2 Map Mods have showed us that more provinces do not equal more fun

You're wrong. EU2 Map mods are definetly much more fun.

 

[th3freakie]

You're wrong. EU2 Map mods are definetly much more fun.

Because they are more acurate, allow for stuff like Goa, Damao, Diu and Macao, and generaly look good. But that's not a result from more provinces. Portugal for exemple, gained nothing by going from 3 to 5 provinces.

 

[Evie HJ]

You're wrong. EU2 Map mods are definetly much more fun.

For you, perhaps.

Personally, I stick to the Vanilla maps - otherwise it really gets too cumbersome to manage.

 

[Woody Man]

For you, perhaps.

Personally, I stick to the Vanilla maps - otherwise it really gets too cumbersome to manage.

Same here, besides, when I play the face of Europe is always changed inexorably.

 

[unmerged(51332)]

EU3, and especialy EU2 Map Mods have showed us that more provinces do not equal more fun. And your references to number of provinces and EB don't quite match either. Sicily is 3 provinces in EB (last I played, 1.0) and Greece is about 6. That's not very representative either, but the mod is still hellish fun.

Wrong. First off, eu2 map mods are widely popular, so no eu2 did not 'show us' that more provinces is bad, that is your subjective opinion. Secondly, there are less provinces in Europe [or the exact same, sorry I have not counted] as eu2 had for Europe. Yet this is the entire map for Rome. When you narrow down the focus on one particular region, traditionally, you increase the depth for that region. It makes sense to have Italy represented as a few provinces in eu2, as it is just one area in the entire globe. A certain abstract simulation of regions is needed, with minor and obscure nations being omitted. Acceptable.

But when the maps focus is scaled down the provinces should increase relative to the previous game. Thats common sense. You increase the depth for the regions you are focusing in when the map is smaller, you do not keep it the same or shrink it. You have also failed to counter his points in the geographic sense, this map simply omits sections of Persia and Central Asia that are absolutely essential for this time period.

Edit: As to your claim about Eb: That was the best they could accomplish. There is only a certain amount of regions allowed in RTW, it is hardcoded. His point was not that Rome should have the same provinces as EB, his point was that EB was a good example for a mod that increased the depth and size of the region is was focusing on. Rome should not require a EB to make it playable. We should not have to rip apart Vanilla just to get basic enjoyment.

Finaly, relax. All Pdox games are rough diamonds waiting to be turned into the finer stuff

I could go into a long debate with you here as to why CK is in the end only a half finished game, with religious wars being inexplicably broken and requiring an exe change, or the terrible use of pops by the A.I in Victoria, or the horrendous A.I in eu2 even with A.I mods, but I think that is self evident. Simply put, your statement is wrong. Paradox games are good compared to the crap we get out of 'mainstream' games like Rome total war. They are not however, fully balanced, completely finished, shining jewels of the game industry. Do we really want Rome to be another Ck? Another Victoria? No, I will not just sit back and assume Paradox is going to do a great job without criticism, that is beyond foolish.

Lastly, Demerit was quite calm.

 

[Woody Man]

UM EXCUSE ME! Greece is not 4 some odd nations.

Asia Minor was a whole host of different countries at this time.

Sicily is TWO provinces. Wheres the nation of Syracuse? You can hop from Carthage to Sicily

I question many of you guys here, you go "OOOO the map is pretty

That wasn't calm.

Frankly this entire discussion is moot, since you are all putting forward subjective opinions.

 

[th3freakie]

Wrong. First off, eu2 map mods are widely popular, so no eu2 did not 'show us' that more provinces is bad, that is your subjective opinion.

That's not my subjective opinion - that's not my opinion, period,
I never said they were bad, I said more provinces did not make them more fun. They are fun, no doubt, but that is related to their detail, increased options, and general freshness.

Now, since what game developers should do is release fun games, not *as many provinces as possible* games, and EU2 is honestly still the most fun out there, I'm perfectly fine with whatever provinces they put in it, knowing they designed the number for fun above all (with beta input I guess).

Simply put, your statement is wrong. Paradox games are good compared to the crap we get out of 'mainstream' games like Rome total war. They are not however, fully balanced, completely finished, shining jewels of the game industry. Do we really want Rome to be another Ck? Another Victoria? No, I will not just sit back and assume Paradox is going to do a great job without criticism, that is beyond foolish.

I didn't say they were "fully balanced, completely finished, shining jewels of the game industry", quite the oposite. I said they are rough diamonds, waiting to be turned into the perfect thing. By Mods if that takes saying.