Does USA always join Allies after Sealion, also Sea Lion was too easy

[Gefallener_Held]

So I did Sealion in September of 1940. USA joined the Allies shortly after taking London and wondered if this is a "game balance" event not unlike later versions of hoi3 where the USSR dowed war on Germany soon after taking London. Does this always happen or just bad luck?

Also, I think this is further proof that the game is still broken. Great Britain did not defend the shores at all. It was also too easy to patrol the English channel to meet the naval superiority requirement. Note that I play with Expert AI mod which is supposed to make the AI marginally competent.

In reality, if sea lion were ever to work, there would be no opportunity to "patrol the english channel." It would have to be a surprise, sudden, highrisk attack unleased simultaneously with a channel dash of naval forces to stop the Royal navy long enough to overrun key ports and airfields. Not sure how that fits into the current game mechanics. I really do not like the naval patrol requirement. I could see a reconnoiter mission with subs, if they wernt so useless and died so instantly in naval comabt.

Anyway, I may table the game once again until there are more improvements. The Suez Canal still is not defended, as one example. I think this has the potential to be far better than hoi4. Some aspects I really like, like variants, that you cant just upgrade a panzer iii into a panther. But he lack of fuel and supplies, and right now that Sea Lion is an absolute cake walk and there is no north africa campaign in any proper sense breaks the game. Maybe in another three month? Six months?

 

[Meglok]

You are not saying anything that others haven't reported.

The naval combat mechanics are bad, the UK suicides it's divisions invading Italy, Norway, BeNeLux, and or the Balkans in 1940 at the expense of not defending the UK, and the UK sends most of it's African army to Ethiopia leaving the Suez wide open to attack.

Just have to wait and see if any of this is addressed in 1.5.

 

[Gefallener_Held]

You are not saying anything that others haven't reported.

The naval combat mechanics are bad, the UK suicides it's divisions invading Italy, Norway, BeNeLux, and or the Balkans in 1940 at the expense of not defending the UK, and the UK sends most of it's African army to Ethiopia leaving the Suez wide open to attack.

Just have to wait and see if any of this is addressed in 1.5.

Well as I stated I have I table the game for 7-8 months bc it was bad, and so did not keep daily tabs here until a few weeks ago?

What about USA joining the Allies after Sea Lion?

 

[DukofDeth]

Depends on the game version, and how aggressive you've been. In the earliest versions [I've not played much prior to 1.2] the US would typically just sit there till someone was dumb enough to poke them hard enough. From somewhere in 1.2 ["Red Ball Express"] to somewhere in 1.3 [TfV] the US tended to jump in when you did enough damage in Europe - I had a lot of SP games with the US jumping in in the mid- to late-40's. After 1.3, that seemed to bet nerfed down, and the US then only seemed to join either when someone attacked it [usually Japan] or when the US AI played the option to go after either Germany, or Japan [usually Germany, as the "Go After Japan" focus tended to be done after a Japanese declaration of war.

Now [as of DoD] it seems to be nerfed down again. The US still enters, but usually only when a focus pulls it in [its own, or one marking the US as a target]. I just played a game as Romania and after taking out Britain, the US stayed neutral; it was still neutral while the Axis were fighting Russia [probably my first "defensive war" against the Soviets]. I'm pretty sure Japan attacked them at some point, though, as the "Italian Raj" at some point conquered The Philippines.

However, the US can still come in "just because", if you do enough damage in Europe, or if the RNG Gods decide to hate on you for a while.

 

[wesleytj]

Sounds like the solution to both of your primary complaints is to play a run-through as the UK!

 

[Gefallener_Held]

Sounds like the solution to both of your primary complaints is to play a run-through as the UK!

Nein Danke.

 

[bERt0r]

Let me guess, you play Germany, didn't fight the USA or the USSR yet and think the game is too easy?

 

[ThuderLizard2]

Also, I think this is further proof that the game is still broken. Great Britain did not defend the shores at all.

This should be a high priority bug fix for PDS versus adding more stuff in China. Or they should allow modding of invasion behaviors and defenses.

 

[wesleytj]

This should be a high priority bug fix for PDS versus adding more stuff in China. Or they should allow modding of invasion behaviors and defenses.

They said there were plenty of AI improvements planned both for the patch and for the DLC. The two concepts are not mutually exclusive. We'll just have to wait and see when it comes out.

 

[Gefallener_Held]

Let me guess, you play Germany, didn't fight the USA or the USSR yet and think the game is too easy?

What is it with some people's attitude on this forum. Did not used to be like this during Hoi3 and even hoi2. It does not matter whether I played until USA and USSR entered the war. The North African Campaign and to a far greater extent Sea Lion are really important. Its like paying for a movie and only getting to see the last half.

 

[bERt0r]

So i guessed right... The whole naval and air game is definitly not the strong point of the game and the AI is bad at it. You can easily exploit this weakness of the AI and Sealion before UK had time to gear up. It's not cheating but it is kind of lame. Like taking candy from a baby or mass paradropping a first time player in MP. You know the war also went really well for the Germans, until 1942 that is. Since the AI is now using artillery it is quite a force to be reckoned with, IMHO its better than many players.

 

[Meglok]

Well as I stated I have I table the game for 7-8 months bc it was bad, and so did not keep daily tabs here until a few weeks ago?

What about USA joining the Allies after Sea Lion?

Right now WT can cause the USA to join even if it hasn't fired the proper focus, as well as actions by Japan. Theoretically the US should only join if attacked or it has completed the required focus, but issues with the WT system override this.

One of many reason the WT system is apparently getting redone.

 

[coffeelingfine]

Italy doesn't really put up a fight in North Africa in my games. They also lose Ethiopia pretty fast.

 

[Gort11]

It works both ways - Italy will join the Axis even if Germany's effectively defeated in an early war with France, for example. Then Japan will jump in once Italy's about to surrender.

 

[DukofDeth]

They nerfed down the reluctance of the US to join based on WT, sometime around one of the late 1.2.x patches, or with the 1.3 patch - I recall there being some ruffled feathers about it. Prior to that, the US was way to predictible, so it was too easy for an Axis player, since [on "Historical"] the US was pretty much guaranteed to stay docile till late 41 to mid 42. Though then, the US was jumping in in the 1940's, usually not long after France fell, so they had to make more adjustments.

 

[Gefallener_Held]

They nerfed down the reluctance of the US to join based on WT, sometime around one of the late 1.2.x patches, or with the 1.3 patch - I recall there being some ruffled feathers about it. Prior to that, the US was way to predictible, so it was too easy for an Axis player, since [on "Historical"] the US was pretty much guaranteed to stay docile till late 41 to mid 42. Though then, the US was jumping in in the 1940's, usually not long after France fell, so they had to make more adjustments.

Is there a mod to address this. If I choose historical AI, US should not enter the war. I guess it is not infeasible that US would enter the war if London fell. But it is nonetheless the case that Roosevelt wanted to enter the war much earlier, but could not until Pearl Harbor.

 

[DukofDeth]

You could try out "Historical Choices"; that is the name of the mod. Guy that did it is called "Jameson". I haven't tried it on its own, as it is one of those mods that doesn't like many other mods. He'll have had to have done a complete overhaul to pin the AI to much more historical behaviors, but that's what he says it does. And he keeps it updated.

 

[C-Breeze]

Also, I think this is further proof that the game is still broken. Great Britain did not defend the shores at all.

This should be a high priority bug fix for PDS versus adding more stuff in China.

If I was cynical, I'd say it's kind of like having a car with a broken rear axle while gushing over the shiny new ashtray. But I'd never be so cynical.

 

[Rubidium]

Is there a mod to address this. If I choose historical AI, US should not enter the war. I guess it is not infeasible that US would enter the war if London fell. But it is nonetheless the case that Roosevelt wanted to enter the war much earlier, but could not until Pearl Harbor.

It's true that FDR wanted to enter the war earlier, but it's also true that public pro-Allies/anti-Axis feeling was steadily rising throughout the early war. There's a reason that Congress responded to the Fall of France by passing the Two-Ocean Navy Act to essentially double the size of the US Navy. The US Navy was essentially fighting an undeclared naval war with German U-boats even before Pearl Harbor. I'd expect the US to probably enter the war sometime in 1942 even without Pearl Harbor, to be honest.

London falling should absolutely trigger a massive freakout in the US.

 

[Gefallener_Held]

It's true that FDR wanted to enter the war earlier, but it's also true that public pro-Allies/anti-Axis feeling was steadily rising throughout the early war. There's a reason that Congress responded to the Fall of France by passing the Two-Ocean Navy Act to essentially double the size of the US Navy. The US Navy was essentially fighting an undeclared naval war with German U-boats even before Pearl Harbor. I'd expect the US to probably enter the war sometime in 1942 even without Pearl Harbor, to be honest.

London falling should absolutely trigger a massive freakout in the US.

I am well aware of American provocations before Pearl Harbor and Hitler (foolisly) declaring war on the United while neck deep in Russia. But FR and frinds limited it to attacking German uboats lend lease because popular support was not there. I do think its feasible that the US would enter the war if sea lion were carried.