Does this mean Vicky 2?

[Lucky]

Sadly, there will probably never be a Vicky 2. Johan has said something to that effect before...

Technically, Johan also said that he'd never make two sequels for a game.

 

[Kriegsspieler]

I'd argue that Vicky's poor sales in the first couple years were not due to the period itself, which has broad historical processes that most players find interesting (imperialism, national unification, industrial revolution, rise of mass politics), but rather the structure of gameplay and the lack of intuitive operation of the main gameplay functions that hampered Victoria out of the gate.

I think if you look at Victoria:Revolutions as it currently is, there is more than enough potentials for warfare between historically scripted conflicts and the ahistorical whims of the player to fulfill that aspect of Paradox gaming most players have.

The internal maintenance of your nation aspect is what most players who dislike Victoria have the most dislike for. So, if you can streamline or automate certain internal nation management functions (bearing in mind to provide options not to automate for those players who thrive on micromanaging everything) so that players do not feel like they are having to keep a dozen plates spinning on poles constantly or face their nation crashing, then I think you overcome the greatest problem many players have with the game. Revolutions made the first step in that direction with factory and rail construction in the hands of capitalists depending on the economic policies of your ruling party, but there are clearly other areas where streamlining can be undertaken to make the game even less about internal management 24-7, while not throwing out the baby with the bathwater and keeping all the detail that Victoria fans do like (culture/workforce/religion breakdowns by province, for example).

The trick is finding that balance, so that players who do not like all the management do not become overwhelmed by it and feel they can't do anything else in terms of conquering etc, and those who do like all the management who do not want to lose the sense of control they have over the destiny of their nation in game.

To end I'll say this, look at the statistics over at Gamersgate. In terms of life sales, the Revolutions expansion is ranked 3rd, and base Victoria, a game that was released almost 5 years ago, is ranked 8th. I'd argue that this indicates a potential market for a revision of Victoria or at least a new title covering the same time period, keeping the elements of Victoria that are treasured by the fans of the game while making it much less difficult to come to grips with the basics of gameplay. It's fanbase is not as big as HoI or EU to be sure, but it continues to gain a steady stream of new players on the forum seeking guidance to learning how to play the game, as well as players who tried it out a few years ago, didn't like it, but are now coming back to it with Revolutions. And for a five year old title that is out of print in many parts of the world, that is no small feat.

I agree with this emphatically. What crippled Victoria was neither its period nor its basic design, but the incredible complexity of its gameplay. Revolutions showed a bunch of people (including some very disgruntled betas who were veterans of the Victoria "POP mines," as one recently expressed it) of how good a game Victoria is.
Still, as I posted in the other thread on this topic, I disagree with OHGamer that there will ever be another Vicky.

 

[Spruce]

I played Victoria from the first days it was ever released.

After all those patches and expansion I still find it to be a CRAP game.

That peace negotiation engine, the "exponential rising" world market, crazy land and sea battles, and the low replay-ability make it a crap game.

Each game I see - Mexico been eaten by USA - I see the UK and Germany clutter the world map in a way only the Bauhaus professors would approve - I see a fleet of 1000 British battleships, good lord I wouldn't be an admiral to that fleet - I see the destruction of 500.000 Russian soldiers and WE only goes up by a very slight margin, does this means that Russians must be exterminated to the last man to get peace ? - the endless wealth you get from the milkcows in the world market - the rich get richter and the poor are just annihilated each time over and over again - my allies sold me out on the diplomacy table (thank you for that barren rock on the other side of the world).

Really - Victoria has the potential, but it is a CRAP game that needs a major overhaul in design and implementation. That's the reason it sold badly.

Take a new piece of paper and start over again.

 

[dublish]

I thought Victoria sold badly because they put a picture of an old hag on the box.

 

[orimazd]

The problem is that you had allies.

 

[lordofzwergs]

There are a lot of great reasons why Vicky never did as well as other Paradox games. One of the main reasons is that they actually finished their other games. Most of the time you'll spend playing Vicky you'll be anxiously waiting for it to get out of beta. Though I do love the game and find it to be enjoyable, I'm going to have to agree heavily with Spruce on this one. Now, if they made a Vicky 2 with the VIP team hired on to help, then I'd be a happy camper. Assuming at that moment I'll be camping, which I won't be.

 

[Hardstuff]

There are a lot of great reasons why Vicky never did as well as other Paradox games. One of the main reasons is that they actually finished their other games. Most of the time you'll spend playing Vicky you'll be anxiously waiting for it to get out of beta. Though I do love the game and find it to be enjoyable, I'm going to have to agree heavily with Spruce on this one. Now, if they made a Vicky 2 with the VIP team hired on to help, then I'd be a happy camper. Assuming at that moment I'll be camping, which I won't be.

1) It sounds very unlikely that he bought, let alone played Revoultions
2) It sounds very unlikely that he downloaded, let alone played VIP(/:R)

 

[Niptium]

I don't care, all I really want is EU4

 

[lordofzwergs]

1) It sounds very unlikely that he bought, let alone played Revoultions
2) It sounds very unlikely that he downloaded, let alone played VIP(/:R)

Actually I didn't play it without Revolutions, and also played with VIP. Anyways, the VIP thing doesn't count against my argument that Paradox didn't finish Vicky because Paradox didn't make it(No, making your game modable doesn't allow you credit for any mods made for it).

I wish people would stop mentioning EU4(the thoughts you put out into the world do have an effect on it) because, well, what would they actually accomplish with it, honestly?

 

[Hardstuff]

Actually I didn't play it without Revolutions, and also played with VIP. Anyways, the VIP thing doesn't count against my argument that Paradox didn't finish Vicky because Paradox didn't make it(No, making your game modable doesn't allow you credit for any mods made for it).

I wish people would stop mentioning EU4(the thoughts you put out into the world do have an effect on it) because, well, what would they actually accomplish with it, honestly?

And I would talk to you, while referring to you in the third person... because?

My comment was replying to you, about the person about whom you were talking. He talked as if he did neither.

 

[lordofzwergs]

And I would talk to you, while referring to you in the third person... because?

My comment was replying to you, about the person about whom you were talking. He talked as if he did neither.

Ah, well, I wasn't really replying to anything, I just entered, got the jist of what the thread was about, and stated my opinion. That's why I got confused, as far as I knew it was just the two of us.

 

[dvandyke]

You can shove Vicky and its Pops where the sun don't set. The game totally and utterly sucked. The best solution is to add a little more depth to the diplomatic, political and trade side to EU3 and extend the timeline.

 

[Disclaimer]

Well, there will be a new Vicky next year, sort of at least and not from Paradox.

So Paradox doesn't only have to think about whether one game like this in the time period will sell well, they also have to think about whether the market is big enough for two. And the answer to that is probably no...

 

[unmerged(44926)]

Well, there will be a new Vicky next year, sort of at least and not from Paradox.

So Paradox doesn't only have to think about whether one game like this in the time period will sell well, they also have to think about whether the market is big enough for two. And the answer to that is probably no...

What game is this and when/where can I get my hands on it?

 

[unmerged(88345)]

Vicky is an acquired taste. These days Paradox is more into games that can actually attract a lot of new customers, not just satisty a small number of rabid fans.

 

[unmerged(76730)]

I don't believe in change and hope anymore.

Amen!

Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.

And last thing I want to see is Vicky on EU3 engine. Jeez it is slow as hell...

Perhaps with relased source we will see Vicky GPL?

Vicky is an acquired taste. These days Paradox is more into games that can actually attract a lot of new customers, not just satisty a small number of rabid fans.

Mate I agree and disagree here. Youre right that Vicky appeals only to Vicky fans (for the most part). New customers, well.... PI games are not designed to appeal to mass customer. Every PI game interface is horrid, manuals obsolete, tutorials non-existent or useless, complication level from very high to kick-ass-super-duper high [and BTW: real men dont need manuals or tutorials ]. It is not exactly road to overwhelming success among people who only know how to play FPS or only know how to use game pad of [e.g.] XboX. And thats why PI should in the first place care about existing fan base, because we funding game development. Simple as that.

 

[Sid Meier]

all of this would be moot if they bowed down to the inevitable did a few more censorship and sold these games in China. All they have to do is what not show the Tibetan flag? They don't show the Nazi flag.

And BOOM 30,000,000 sales.

I like Hoi2 but I just feel so cheated and robbed by having to buy the expansions for Hoi2 only to get Hoi3, the boosters should have been free.

 

[unmerged(88345)]

all of this would be moot if they bowed down to the inevitable did a few more censorship and sold these games in China. All they have to do is what not show the Tibetan flag? They don't show the Nazi flag.

And BOOM 30,000,000 sales.

More like 1 sale, 29,999,99 pirated copies.

 

[unmerged(63715)]

As far as I know, it is possible to convert games from CK to EUIII (though I don't know about EUIII to Victoria). So it can't be ruled out that a conversion from Victoria to HoI3 will also be possible.

Still, I hope Paradox will do another Victoria game, though I fear the most characteristic features, which, on the other hand, were also incredibly hard to understand and master, will be reworked beyond recognition or removed.

However, if the new Victoria turns out completely different but excellent despite or because of this, I'll be all too happy to buy it.

 

[ZmajOgnjeniVuk]

Well, there will be a new Vicky next year, sort of at least and not from Paradox.

So Paradox doesn't only have to think about whether one game like this in the time period will sell well, they also have to think about whether the market is big enough for two. And the answer to that is probably no...

What game are you talking about?