Does the equipment capture mechanic need a revamp? Shouldn't Encirclement always capture eq.?

  • We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

TheLastMonkeylander

Corporal
61 Badges
Apr 20, 2016
38
15
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Semper Fi
  • Rome Gold
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Magicka
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Surviving Mars
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
The new equipment capture mechanic is a good idea, but the way I see it, has a few significant flaws. If these were fixed it would be a perfect feature. But given the importance of captured equipment in historical WWII, I believe the captured equipment mechanic deserves some tweaks.

1. Encirclement should capture a larger amount of equipment

At the moment, it appears that successful Encirclements do not give you any more equipment than a costly (and less one-sided) front-line battle. However, historical encirclements like the Battle of Bialystok-Minsk, Battle of Smolensk, and Battle of Kiev in 1941, saw large pockets of Soviet divisions overrun and thousands of tanks and artillery pieces captured. The November 1942 encirclement of the German Sixth Army also saw a lot of German equipment captured by the Soviets. Based on this, closing pockets should capture a lot of equipment.

In game, as far as I can tell, when divisions are annihilated, their equipment just disappears. Instead, it's that slow 5%/10% maintenance company equipment capture rate that is captured, and only during battle. If you act smartly, and encircle the enemy, you actually get less equipment. This seems backwards.

I think that closing pockets should be the main way to capture equipment, and should have a massive boost compared to simple frontline battle capture rates. Perhaps 30-50%... at minimum, for encirclements?

Since there is already a mechanic to check if troops are inside an encirclement, which causes them to lose organization, and be overrun and destroyed, then it should be relatively feasible to incorporate a mechanic where perhaps 50% of equipment inside of a closed pocket can be captured by the conqueror. Obviously, it's always easier said than done to implement a mechanic with testing and everything, but at least at first glance, it seems like it wouldn't require a lot of additional functionality.

2. The default capture rate should be higher to simulate the Chinese army vs. Japan

As it is now, the equipment capture rate is pretty low. The 0% default practically prevents the AI from ever capturing equipment, because the AI never selects maintenance companies. To allow for the Chinese to captured Japanese equipment during the Second Sino-Japanese War, the default capture rate should be some 1-2% at least.

--

What are your thoughts? Should the equipment capture system be adjusted?
 
Last edited:

Olanov

Captain
26 Badges
May 11, 2017
346
103
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Hearts of Iron IV: By Blood Alone
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Steel Division: Normand 44 - Second Wave
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44 Deluxe Edition
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44 -  Back to Hell
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Hearts of Iron III
I really like this suggestion and it would add even more of a reason to use the maintenance company. I'd like to build on top of this and suggest that the capture ratio could still vary during encirclements. Perhaps to simulate troops destroying some of their equipment instead of just leaving it behind?
 

Joonnnyy

Second Lieutenant
27 Badges
Nov 28, 2011
168
1
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For the Motherland
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Surviving Mars
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Semper Fi
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
imo the current set up of requiering maintnence company to capture any equipment at all is counterintuitive, as those nations profiting most, low tech/industry, dont have the ability to equipt maintence company just for this and even breaking even compared to the cost is ridiculisly hard
also scavanger does not work without maintnence company atm so it is impossible to capture without maintanece company

a small capture rate of ~2% would be extremly usefull for defensive low industry/tech nations(eg china), while not to unfair for high industry/tech
for encirclements there could be a multiplier, eg 3x rate, so that without any increasement you only get small amount to cover your losses, but with lvl 2 or 3 maintanece company and scavanger trait you could build a new army with the captured stuff from a good encirclement and make the enemy pay twice for this mistake
 

Alex_brunius

Field Marshal
68 Badges
Mar 24, 2006
22.404
5.017
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • War of the Roses
  • 200k Club
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Pride of Nations
  • Magicka 2
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Achtung Panzer
  • Stellaris
  • Victoria 2
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • PDXCON 2017 Gold Ticket holder
  • Surviving Mars
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Cities in Motion
  • Cities in Motion 2
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Deus Vult
  • Dungeonland
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Magicka
  • Majesty 2
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Naval War: Arctic Circle
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Rome Gold
  • Semper Fi
  • Sword of the Stars
Isn't equipment capture based on equipment destroyed? ( A certain % is captured ).

A front side battle should destroy no more then maybe 10-20% of an enemy divisions equipment while an encirclement destroys 100% of it.

That alone should represent a x5 to x10 "increase" in how much equipment is captured from encirclement.
 

Fulmen

The Winter War was only 7% of Finland's WW2
73 Badges
Dec 23, 2006
5.965
6.020
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Rome Gold
  • Victoria 2
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • War of the Roses
  • War of the Vikings
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • March of the Eagles
However, historical encirclements like the Battle of Bialystok-Minsk, Battle of Smolensk, and Battle of Kiev in 1941, saw large pockets of Soviet divisions overrun and thousands of tanks and artillery pieces captured. The November 1942 encirclement of the German Sixth Army also saw a lot of German equipment captured by the Soviets. Based on this, closing pockets should capture a lot of equipment.
I'll just add to this that Finland also captured a lot of Russian equipment in many, many encirclements 1939-44.

Currently this is not possible to emulate in the game.
 

Olanov

Captain
26 Badges
May 11, 2017
346
103
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Hearts of Iron IV: By Blood Alone
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Steel Division: Normand 44 - Second Wave
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44 Deluxe Edition
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44 -  Back to Hell
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Hearts of Iron III
I'll just add to this that Finland also captured a lot of Russian equipment in many, many encirclements 1939-44.

Currently this is not possible to emulate in the game.

This just isn't true. You've got a quite a while to actually add the maintenance company your division(s) as Finland and can capture equipment with relative ease, to a point where a lot of my divisions had predominently Soviet equipment. Admittedly it's 1950 but the war broke out mid 1940.

8921F5EB0719A6412C22855BF510B2F9A4FF76F3
 

Fulmen

The Winter War was only 7% of Finland's WW2
73 Badges
Dec 23, 2006
5.965
6.020
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Rome Gold
  • Victoria 2
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • War of the Roses
  • War of the Vikings
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Darkest Hour
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • March of the Eagles
This just isn't true. You've got a quite a while to actually add the maintenance company your division(s) as Finland and can capture equipment with relative ease, to a point where a lot of my divisions had predominently Soviet equipment. Admittedly it's 1950 but the war broke out mid 1940.

8921F5EB0719A6412C22855BF510B2F9A4FF76F3
I'm talking about encirclements, so what I said is true.