Does the AI send naval invasions without even having naval supremacy?

  • We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
Dec 5, 2021
858
1.374
So Ive tabbed over to AI Britain a number of times before, and Ive never seen them with naval invasions plans…I dont think ever. And yet the most certainly do them all the time.

Just my experience, maybe I check at terrible times?
 

SchwarzKatze

Field Marshal
45 Badges
Nov 8, 2008
5.827
4.439

STABBY5

Lt. General
58 Badges
Feb 13, 2016
1.257
1.144
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Surviving Mars
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Prison Architect
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Victoria 2
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • War of the Roses
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
May I ask for your source?
It's been many years since I read on it. It popped up in one of those threads complaining that the ai cheated in everything and that's why the player was losing. Natrually the ai doesn't get free stuff unless you change the difficulty. It broke down the few cheats the ai gets. None of which is equipment. I think the ai used to get help with occupations, naval invasions and maybe attrition. It used to be much more apparent, with the ai not caring at all. Back when it infamously suicided 1-2 division everywhere constantly. Then they reworked naval invasion coding and it more or less respects it. I can try and find the old threads but that was a long time ago.
 

noblehunter

First Lieutenant
125 Badges
Mar 18, 2005
286
952
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Majesty 2
  • March of the Eagles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Semper Fi
  • Sengoku
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Magicka
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • 200k Club
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis: Rome Collectors Edition
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Cities in Motion 2
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Deus Vult
  • East India Company
  • Cities in Motion
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
The problem with this is that invasion fleets can't really be intercepted and sunk in HOI4. Sea Lion without naval supremacy should be a blood-bath for the Germans -- you know, all your division should be drowned in the channel if there are lots of Royal Navy ships there. Given that transports and landing craft aren't units on the map, player naval invasions are OP as it stands.
I think transports conducting an invasion should have their visibility set to "yes" (or however you make them very easy to find both air and sea units) and also make it so they have a great deal of difficulty retreating and that doing so cancels the invasion.
 

SchwarzKatze

Field Marshal
45 Badges
Nov 8, 2008
5.827
4.439
I think transports conducting an invasion should have their visibility set to "yes" (or however you make them very easy to find both air and sea units) and also make it so they have a great deal of difficulty retreating and that doing so cancels the invasion.
Haven't they always been on map and visible?
 

rob_mtl

First Lieutenant
66 Badges
Sep 30, 2017
259
252
www.youtube.com
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Victoria 2
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Divine Wind
Haven't they always been on map and visible?
I mean it should be more like HOI3, where you can more easily sink an entire invasion fleet and the divisions that are being transported. I also think you should have to build transports and landing crafts separately from convoys.

While the interface can be a little bit frustrating to conduct an invasion, it's even more frustrating to defend against one. There's very little you can do to prevent the AI from naval invasions, and there's almost always a "naval invasion" warning on the right side of the screen.

Generally, convoys seem to be a bit too cheap in HOI4. I see AI Germany having hundreds of convoys, where in WW2, Germany's merchant fleet was virtually reduced to 0 within the opening months of the war. It's too easy for the German AI or player to conduct trade or naval invasions.

To give an example, the invasion of Norway involved something like a third of Germany's total shipping. While the invasion was a success (very much a matter of luck--it was a very risky operation), it was a strategic disaster that resulted in the loss of 3 cruisers and 10 destroyers as well as a substantial part of Germany's transport fleet, to say nothing of the colossal resources required to garrison Norway throughout the war. From that point forward, Germany's capacity to conduct substantial surface naval operations in the North Sea disappeared.

Similarly, Sea Lion was never a serious plan. It would have taken years for Germany to build up the necessary transport capacity (victory by 1950!) to supply an army of any size across the channel. Even in the unlikely event of a Luftwaffe success in the air Battle of Britain, only a small army could have been supplied, which would have been slaughtered by local resistance-- tanks or no tanks. There simply were not enough boats in Germany.

Italy faced similar problems in East Africa and (later on) in North Africa, with catastrophic losses in shipping at a rate the Axis simply could not sustain.

Obviously the German player in HOI4 is going to want a little bit more agency than what was historically accurate (IRL, Germany was doomed to fail from day 0 of the war), but some kind of rebalance of naval invasions and convoys is warranted.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions:

sekelsenmat

Colonel
22 Badges
Aug 10, 2009
889
937
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
The problem with this is that invasion fleets can't really be intercepted and sunk in HOI4.


I think that this is false isn't it? I mean, troops moving between 2 ports absolutely can be sunk, and they are on the map. Happens all the time in the Mediterranean. I'm not 100% sure on invasions, but I'd be really surprised if it was otherwise.
 
  • 5
Reactions:
Dec 5, 2021
858
1.374
I think that this is false isn't it? I mean, troops moving between 2 ports absolutely can be sunk, and they are on the map. Happens all the time in the Mediterranean. I'm not 100% sure on invasions, but I'd be really surprised if it was otherwise.
I think what they meant was that they can be intercepted and take damage, but not pushed back entirely. Ie once an invasion has been launched, its going to land (even if it does get mutilated along the way)
 

noblehunter

First Lieutenant
125 Badges
Mar 18, 2005
286
952
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • Majesty 2
  • March of the Eagles
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Semper Fi
  • Sengoku
  • Sword of the Stars
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Magicka
  • Warlock 2: The Exiled
  • 200k Club
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis: Rome Collectors Edition
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Cities in Motion 2
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Deus Vult
  • East India Company
  • Cities in Motion
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
It seems like invasion transports are detected and attacked like they're convoys trading resources. I'm not sure if they'll be attacked by ships not on convoy raiding. Since the convoy raiding rules don't make it easy to sink 100% of convoys moving through an area, it's difficult to destroy every transport in an invasion force.
 

sekelsenmat

Colonel
22 Badges
Aug 10, 2009
889
937
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
I think what they meant was that they can be intercepted and take damage, but not pushed back entirely. Ie once an invasion has been launched, its going to land (even if it does get mutilated along the way)
Well, if you didn't guard your ports and failed to react despite the invasion warning and the naval battle which massively delays the invasion (it takes ages for the convoys to escape from battle) I guess you deserved being invaded. Every port needs to be garrisoned.
 
  • 4Like
  • 1
Reactions:
Dec 5, 2021
858
1.374
Well, if you didn't guard your ports and failed to react despite the invasion warning and the naval battle which massively delays the invasion (it takes ages for the convoys to escape from battle) I guess you deserved being invaded. Every port needs to be garrisoned.

I agree completely. But if thats the case, we should be able to launch naval invasions regardless of “naval supremacy”, and if ships are on strike force in superior numbers/quality they should come out and annihilate it in a big naval engagement (if they can make it in time). If I (or the AI) force a naval invasion when they dont have the proper escort fleet or fighting force in the region, let me pay the price.

The system now is just really odd, and tends to consist of building fodder to get over that arbitrary hurdle instead of actually dominating the the naval region with a superior force.
 
Last edited:
  • 2
Reactions:

shadowpho

Sergeant
53 Badges
Dec 5, 2021
76
90
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • BATTLETECH
  • Surviving Mars
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Steel Division: Normand 44 - Second Wave
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Steel Division: Normandy 44 -  Back to Hell
  • BATTLETECH - Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • BATTLETECH: Flashpoint
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Prison Architect
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • BATTLETECH: Season pass
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Dungeonland
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Leviathan: Warships
  • Magicka
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Semper Fi
  • The Showdown Effect
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • War of the Roses
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Magicka 2
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Magicka 2: Ice, Death and Fury
Well, if you didn't guard your ports and failed to react despite the invasion warning and the naval battle which massively delays the invasion (it takes ages for the convoys to escape from battle) I guess you deserved being invaded. Every port needs to be garrisoned.
I want to point out that the defense order makes it trivial to do so. Set an army to defend order, only check ports and voila! It even tells you how many divisions you need.
 
  • 1
Reactions:

Anaraxes

Lt. General
51 Badges
Jun 22, 2012
1.401
1.415
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Field Marshal
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Hearts of Iron IV: By Blood Alone
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Cities: Skylines Deluxe Edition
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
Keep in mind that you only need enough supremacy for one hour to execute invasion plans. One little blip in coverage can result in sudden invasions.
Also, notice that if a task force on a mission (say Patrol, or Convoy Raiding) belongs to an admiral that has more than one sea zone with that order, all the TFs with that order sail around to cover all the sea zones assigned. Even if there's exactly as many TFs as there are sea zones, all the TFs move through all the sea zones. The TFs don't divide the zones among themselves and then just camp in one to the exclusion of others (like, say, an army with a area defense order). It's perfectly possible to have little gaps in supremacy because one TF has just left the zone, while another hasn't quite arrived yet.

If you want to be sure about your anti-invasion supremacy, make sure each admiral defends only one zone. (Sea zones are assigned to the admiral, not to the TF, even though generally you've just clicked on a TF, gave it a mission, and then start right-clicking sea zones.) Same thing is true in reverse -- if you want to be sure you're supreme in a sea zone, make it the only one that the admiral cares about. It's likely that eventually you'll get supremacy against a weak enemy even if you don't have enough TFs to cover all your assigned zones -- at some one, one or more of them will be in the right place, and your invasion will launch -- but that's not certainty.
 
  • 3Haha
  • 1
Reactions:

FocusedHope

First Lieutenant
31 Badges
May 12, 2021
225
450
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Hearts of Iron IV: By Blood Alone
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
Also, notice that if a task force on a mission (say Patrol, or Convoy Raiding) belongs to an admiral that has more than one sea zone with that order, all the TFs with that order sail around to cover all the sea zones assigned. Even if there's exactly as many TFs as there are sea zones, all the TFs move through all the sea zones. The TFs don't divide the zones among themselves and then just camp in one to the exclusion of others (like, say, an army with a area defense order). It's perfectly possible to have little gaps in supremacy because one TF has just left the zone, while another hasn't quite arrived yet.

If you want to be sure about your anti-invasion supremacy, make sure each admiral defends only one zone. (Sea zones are assigned to the admiral, not to the TF, even though generally you've just clicked on a TF, gave it a mission, and then start right-clicking sea zones.) Same thing is true in reverse -- if you want to be sure you're supreme in a sea zone, make it the only one that the admiral cares about. It's likely that eventually you'll get supremacy against a weak enemy even if you don't have enough TFs to cover all your assigned zones -- at some one, one or more of them will be in the right place, and your invasion will launch -- but that's not certainty.
Or just put your bit task force on strike force orders, they'll contribute supremacy to every zone assigned to that fleet (i.e. admiral) even if you don't have anyone patrolling that zone, even if you don't have anyone patrolling at all. Which is itself annoying when you can't naval invade an AI because "they have supremacy", and you can't get supremacy by beating them in a battle because their ships are all in port on strike force. In other words, time to micro carrier groups on port strike missions.

Two other comments on general things in the thread that disagree with my experience:

So, I'm pretty sure the AI doesn't actually cheat with naval invasions, because I've had a lot of games where I can sit safely behind secure naval supremacy (*cough* UK *cough*, but also Greece vs. Turkey in the path to Byzantium), and then in the same game if I ever lose naval supremacy I get invaded. It's pretty clear to me that they wanted to invade me, but couldn't, the supremacy mechanic working as intended. I do kinda wish that it wasn't a sharp tipping point at 50% between "you can invade them" and "they can invade you", maybe let it be 60% supremacy required to do a naval invasion, and between that neither side can. But even if I disagree with the mechanic's current design, I'm pretty sure it's working as designed. I suspect what's going on is that if they get naval supremacy for even 1 hour tick, any invasions proceed, even if they immediately lose supremacy and never get it back. (I've taken advantage of this mechanic myself.)

Regarding intercepting a naval invasion, a naval invasion is convoys, and if you want to intercept convoys you need ships on convoy raiding. Patrol/strike force combinations don't intercept convoys, possibly at all even if they have nothing better to do. And then you need enough ships to have enough convoy raiding efficiency to catch all the invading divisions, or they'll get through. When combined with the "if you lose supremacy for even one tick" mechanic, this means you have to actually put some attention and effort into stopping naval invasions... which is arguably a good thing for a game.
 
  • 1
  • 1
Reactions:

Secret Master

Covert Mastermind
Moderator
95 Badges
Jul 9, 2001
36.559
19.760
www.youtube.com
  • 200k Club
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis: Rome
  • Semper Fi
  • Sengoku
  • Ship Simulator Extremes
  • Sword of the Stars II
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Rome: Vae Victis
  • Warlock: Master of the Arcane
  • March of the Eagles
  • 500k Club
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Knight (pre-order)
  • Pride of Nations
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Mount & Blade: With Fire and Sword
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Limited Collectors Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Commander: Conquest of the Americas
  • Deus Vult
  • Europa Universalis III
  • A Game of Dwarves
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • For the Motherland
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Hearts of Iron III Collection
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • King Arthur II
  • The Kings Crusade
If you want to be sure about your anti-invasion supremacy, make sure each admiral defends only one zone.

Yep.

But I realized that there's another noobish thing that some players may not realize when defending coasts.

Fleets with a strike force order normally sit in port and generate naval supremacy. They may sail out of the port if friendly ships detect enemy ships in allotted sea zones.

Normally, this is fine. If you are a dominant naval power, you probably want to bag weak random enemy patrols sailing near your coastline. But the strike force sailing around to intercept detected fleets can cause some blips in your coverage.

But that's not the real problem.

The real problem comes when capital ships start sailing out of port on strike force orders when your DD patrols pick up enemy submarines on convoy raid.

Hood and Valiant can't help attack subs. But they can get stuck chasing subs around and not covering sea zones. So, they're not going to sink any subs, nor are they going to prevent invasions.

Invasion Support can mitigate this since ships on Invasion Support don't respond to enemy patrols or convoy raiding. Then again, it can feel really weird to have the Home Fleet sitting in Scapa Flow on Invasion Support... but really stopping an invasion?
 
  • 7
Reactions:

rob_mtl

First Lieutenant
66 Badges
Sep 30, 2017
259
252
www.youtube.com
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Battle for Bosporus
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Victoria 2
  • Hearts of Iron IV: La Resistance
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Hearts of Iron III: Their Finest Hour
  • Divine Wind
I think that this is false isn't it? I mean, troops moving between 2 ports absolutely can be sunk, and they are on the map. Happens all the time in the Mediterranean. I'm not 100% sure on invasions, but I'd be really surprised if it was otherwise.
I may be wrong but in my experience some troops always seem to land or attack (if there's a garrison) as long as the order fires. It may be simply that the likelihood of sinking an entire convoy is very low unless your using subs that can one-shot them or something.

Convoys are "units on the map" in a sense., but they all come from a pool, which for majors is often quite high. I feel that troop transports should be separate from resource and supply convoys. Troop transports should be units that you place in fleets and manually load with troops, like cogs in EU4, transport ships in Victoria 2 or transports/landing craft in HOI3. The current system gives very little feedback for the invader or the invaded except for an annoying notification. Also, HOI4 convoys seem to be designed with submarine warfare in mind-- fleets on orders other than "convoy raiding" don't seem to intercept them as much. It's just weird.

Adding dedicated troop transport ships would make naval invasions challenging in a meaningful way (rather than in a "cheese the battle planner" way). You would have to dedicate dockyards to specialized landing craft that would need to be designed like any other ship. It's just an idea, but some version of this could be used to rebalance invasions.
 
  • 1
  • 1
Reactions: