Does Sweden *always* blob all over Scandinavia?

[Kirkegaard]

The underlining problem is that the programmers suffers from the same erroneous believe as Gustav Vase and the Swedish nobility, namely that Sweden would be better of alone than part of the glorious Danish nation, thous preventing an united Scandinavia to blob all over the world

 

[Dnote]

My latest game somehow, wasn't paying attention, Norway took all of Sweden and most of Denmark. They don't have enough to form Scandinavia, but they can't be far off it.

Norway is, however, infinitely inferior to Sweden when it comes to the AI. I don't know how they did it, but they are a useless ally and now completely stagnating, failing miserably against everyone they fight, but no one cares enough about them to wipe them out completely.

 

[winddy]

For me, Sweden get wrecked after patch. I don't know the reasons but maybe random resources could matter.

 

[Nikolaj-11]

Before CS it was pretty split in most of my games. If Denmark didn't get rekt by a coalition of different wars from the Hansa and Sweden/Novgorod they would usually beat Sweden to a standstill in the independence war.

Nowdays for some reason Sweden seem to break them all the time, sometimes even getting Norway free as well.

 

[Niebulheim]

If the "Historic rival" modifier on liberty desire was reduced from +50% to +25% it would make a lot of difference and actually give AI Denmark a chance of eating Sweden without having to win a war and take provinces from them.

 

[Lumpy]

If the "Historic rival" modifier on liberty desire was reduced from +50% to +25% it would make a lot of difference and actually give AI Denmark a chance of eating Sweden without having to win a war and take provinces from them.

I think the historic rival modifier is highly deterministic and should have to go, not only in this case. If nations can't stand each other, it should be caused by game mechanics rather than artificial modifiers that can't be overcome.

In my last Sweden game I tried to ally Denmark which was all but annihilated by the Hansa and reduced to the island of Fyn. Guess what, they don't want to, since we are "historical rivals". Needless to say, they got annexed a few years later. That did feel quite silly, to be honest.

 

[FieldMedic]

#Nerfblue, always #Nerfblue . But yes something about CS seems to really benefit Sweden as almost every game they're forming Scandinavia. Possibly the weakness of Russia in CS and Sweden's preference for buddying up with PLC which can attack Denmark over land

 

[wergy]

What did you expect from a Swedish development team?

 

[Lumpy]

What did you expect from a Swedish development team?

They could at least try to conceal their blatant fanboyism!

 

[thisistherevolt]

I turned lucky nations off and random tax and manpower on, and then went to play in North America, after seeing colonists from Ireland, Burgundy, Scotland, and Andalusia, I got curious. Pan to Europe, France is gone, a Hapsburg rules Burgundy, Brittany is kicking ass, Ireland broke free and owns Wales, Scotland ate most of England. Aaaand, last but not least, a Danish-formed Scandinavia fighting the Commonwealth. Weird game.

 

[ringhloth]

No, Sweden doesn't blob every game.

 

[Mortmal]

Sweden blob in every games, and now Muscovy is very weak.. Coincidence ? I think not. I know its a Swedish team but there might be a few turks in their ranks too, ottoman empire is extremely strong now too.

 

[Wagonlitz]

I think the historic rival modifier is highly deterministic and should have to go, not only in this case. If nations can't stand each other, it should be caused by game mechanics rather than artificial modifiers that can't be overcome.

In my last Sweden game I tried to ally Denmark which was all but annihilated by the Hansa and reduced to the island of Fyn. Guess what, they don't want to, since we are "historical rivals". Needless to say, they got annexed a few years later. That did feel quite silly, to be honest.

There need to be something to model the Danish Swedish rivalry though. At the start of the game we had been rivaling and frequently warring for over half a millenium.

 

[Lumpy]

There need to be something to model the Danish Swedish rivalry though. At the start of the game we had been rivaling and frequently warring for over half a millenium.

Right, but where did those rivalries came from historically? Swedish-Danish relations should be bad because of the standard relation modifiers and the rival system, not because of some arbitrary modifier that never goes away no matter what you do. As it is now, you can't play out a alternative history where Swedes and Danes aren't rivals. It's basically hardcoded. Not a good thing for a sandbox game.

 

[Wagonlitz]

Right, but where did those rivalries came from historically? Swedish-Danish relations should be bad because of the standard relation modifiers and the rival system, not because of some arbitrary modifier that never goes away no matter what you do. As it is now, you can't play out a alternative history where Swedes and Danes aren't rivals. It's basically hardcoded. Not a good thing for a sandbox game.

I don't know how it started, but my guess is that it is the usual struggle to gain the upper hand between two realms with the same culture. Much of it also centered around who controlled Skåneland---and what the borders of Skåneland were. This far into the rivalry you need something special to simulate the rivalry, because it wouldn't just go away easily. So the standard relation system shouldn't be used, since you couldn't just send a diplomat and after a few years everything was fine.

 

[Lumpy]

I don't know how it started, but my guess is that it is the usual struggle to gain the upper hand between two realms with the same culture. Much of it also centered around who controlled Skåneland---and what the borders of Skåneland were. This far into the rivalry you need something special to simulate the rivalry, because it wouldn't just go away easily. So the standard relation system shouldn't be used, since you couldn't just send a diplomat and after a few years everything was fine.

Not if they flag each other as rivals, which they usually do. Isn't the game's rival system supposed to simulate exactly that?

 

[Wagonlitz]

Not if they flag each other as rivals, which they usually do. Isn't the game's rival system supposed to simulate exactly that?

They should start as rivals then. Also you risk that the game says they cannot be rivals anymore even though it makes no sense.

 

[ringhloth]

They should start as rivals then. Also you risk that the game says they cannot be rivals anymore even though it makes no sense.

Subjects don't have rivals.

 

[Wagonlitz]

Subjects don't have rivals.

Good point.

 

[hashinshin]

I had a reverse-Sweden game.

Denmark annexed Sweden and Norway broke free, then battled Denmark.