my anacdotal experience would place Swedish regional superiority closer to 80% ... if not still a bit higher
Does Sweden *always* blob all over Scandinavia?
- Thread starter Ketilsen
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Of the two games I have seen them blob, one was because I supported their independence and allied them as England. The other, Denmark successfully held them as a PU and started conquering parts of northern Germany, but then provoked a coalition that wrecked them and gave Sweden their freedom, allowing easy expansion.
The issue I think is that Denmark is unstable, even surviving the likely Swedish war of independence, one lost war frequently results in Swedish and even Norwegian freedom. Once free, they frequently ally Poland/Commonwealth due to mutual rivals (Muscovy/TO/Denmark) and expand a bit. Also, whilst Denmark losing a war results in them losing a lot of territory, Sweden has very few nations that can actually take anything in Sweden, so can easily bounce back. I don't think I have ever seen Sweden itself owned by an enemy other than Denmark and maybe Finland, even Russia barely seems to touch them.
The issue I think is that Denmark is unstable, even surviving the likely Swedish war of independence, one lost war frequently results in Swedish and even Norwegian freedom. Once free, they frequently ally Poland/Commonwealth due to mutual rivals (Muscovy/TO/Denmark) and expand a bit. Also, whilst Denmark losing a war results in them losing a lot of territory, Sweden has very few nations that can actually take anything in Sweden, so can easily bounce back. I don't think I have ever seen Sweden itself owned by an enemy other than Denmark and maybe Finland, even Russia barely seems to touch them.
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it seems to depend on their first independence war, if denmark wins that one (due to an alliance with poland/lithuania for example) they take some swedish provinces and even if the PU breaks become stronger than them, this usually leads to a fractured scandinavia.
If Sweden wins the first independence war it easily dominates Scandinavia, although it will only expand beyond that if Russia is very unstable.
If Sweden wins the first independence war it easily dominates Scandinavia, although it will only expand beyond that if Russia is very unstable.
Three games after the patch. Norway blobbed in the first, Sweden on the other two. It's been like that for along time. Personally, I think that Russia often doesn't blob westwards, only south and east. This makes Poland more powerful for a longer time and the same happens with Sweden.
Sweden is to weak to fight Russia, but to strong for Denmark / Norway... Maybe some missions to attack Novgorod or Livonian order / Russia later on? Don't know if they are in place though. At least Denmark should get some serious naval buff so that it can't be overrun, that still leaves Norway though... Maybe give Norway some extra atrition modifier, those mountains and cold climate shouldn't be very good conditions for a army...
But the best option might be that Norway gets historical friendship or something and Sweden tries to support Norwegian independence and after that get them in a union under themself or vassal. But still I can live with Norway being annexed by Sweden, but Denmark should be able to hold itself with an outstanding navy, just as England is virtually impossible to invade by the AI, while they historically weren't that big of a naval power that early in the game.
But the best option might be that Norway gets historical friendship or something and Sweden tries to support Norwegian independence and after that get them in a union under themself or vassal. But still I can live with Norway being annexed by Sweden, but Denmark should be able to hold itself with an outstanding navy, just as England is virtually impossible to invade by the AI, while they historically weren't that big of a naval power that early in the game.
The AI is also not smart enough to work with straits, making Denmark a very vulnerable target against superior fleets. But I do sometimes see Denmark integrate Norway and Sweden. That said Sweden was historically fairly powerful in this time period. So it makes more sense for Sweden to be stronk than any other nordic power.
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Well part of the problem is that they have a navy that is too big (indirectly caused by them being way too rich) and they are seldom blockaded.
A pity the AI still doesn´t know how to blockade properly. The day I see ottoman fleet parking next to Venice is the day I will be scared by the AI.
Well, to be fair Sweden did beat compete with Denmark at sea over the next few centuries and in one instance ignored their navy completely and crossed over the frozen Baltic.
Also, without lucky nations I usually see Denmark have a bigger navy than Sweden, Sweden just gets independence because it wins on land, usually with the help of Novgorod and Scotland.
Not true. In the 1658 treaty of Roskilde Sweden took Trøndelag thereby cutting Norway in two. They did so in order to later be able to gobble up the now cut off northern parts. Trøndelag just got back together with Bornholm in 1660.
Not true for the entire period. In the first half of the period it was us who wrecked the Swedish army.
I don't think walking over the belts were ever confirmed; just speculation based on how the coast gets a layer of ice at winter. Also, as I mentioned back then, if it was in it should be really really rare, since the Belts freezing like that was really really rare. Actually probably only should happen in the mid 1600s, since that time was exceptionally cold.
Why should Sweden become a great power? In 1444 nothing pointed towards it being Sweden and not Denmark which would get out on top and it took a three brilliant kings and a fluke in the mid 1660s for Sweden to permanently get on top.
Not directly. Denmark had a larger population than Sweden at that time; and as far as I remember at least until 1658 too. Denmark were at around 1 million when the black death hit in 1349 and didn't hit 1 million again until ~1700.
Why does it make more sense for Sweden to be the strongest? Show me which thing in 1444 predicted Sweden would get the upper hand. Nobody could have predicted that Sweden would get a string of brilliant kings which coincided with one of the largest wars ever seen which again meant that Denmark was wrecked. Jylland hadn't recovered from Tilly/Waldenstein (cannot remember who) sacking it in 1623 when the Sweden came knocking.
On the overall picture we beat Sweden at sea and after the mid 1600s Sweden beat us at land.
Also the frozen belts were a fluke. Plus if the Swedish king hadn't gained knowledge about that Brandenburgian/Polish relief army a few days before the Danish king things could still have been very different.
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Yes, but for the period that Denmark and Sweden's rivalry and also in-game national identities draw inspiration from (17th-18th century, look at Sweden's ideas, little concerns pre-Gustav Adolf).
Wait, oh! So you fought alongside the Danish army during the 15th century! I'm honored to see that you know so good English! You must be, what, 450 years old?
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Denmark should construct more galleys. Not like Ottoman, but like Venetia. At least more than Sweden+Teuton.
And some western nations should have some technology penalty. How can Sweden have same technology with Denmark before Vasa? Maybe technology rework be done someday I hope.
And some western nations should have some technology penalty. How can Sweden have same technology with Denmark before Vasa? Maybe technology rework be done someday I hope.
No not always. Recently I've mostly seen Norway and Denmark teaming up against Sweden and beating it to a pulp
In my game, Sweden got destroyed by Denmark and Poland got destroyed by a massive Teutonic Order (bigger army size than Austria). So no, not "always" 
I've found from a brief game as Denmark that it's still really hard to keep Sweden's liberty desire under control, in spite of the extra vassal interactions, because of all the events that keep on raising it. Kind of irritating, really.
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