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Anfillius

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For what little it may be worth:
I am biding my time playing another 4X space game, and there is a lot of information I do not have access to that would be very useful. It's driving me a little crazy, as I've gotten used to the CK2 model. More information, to be used or not by the player, is always good.
 
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Kliwarrior

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How many times has EU4 forced you to use the ledger to do anything?
.. except checking when is the right moment to attack the Otto's ;)

But besides this , I really love to check the data of provinces , trade nodes etc.

Much more useful is in VIC/VIC2 , to check POP status, production etc without clicking every state

So for Stellaris, I think that check the happiness of POP, production of energy/resources etc.. really needs a ledger
 
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Ledger for your own stuff makes perfect sense. Maybe even your federation partners. Having it for everyone and having it accurate screws up the " fog of war".
 
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Arroz

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why would you want a cheat sheet?
It's not necessarily a cheat sheet. Give us a ledger on our empire's information and if it must include information on others, make it very general similar to how CiV or the diplomacy screen do it. IE rank your military as "inferior, equivalent, or superior" based on galactic averages (that the game doesn't show you).
 
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The thing about the ledger is that it makes espionage rather silly. As a lot of that information is the information that you would be wanting your spies to be getting a hold of for you.

If it was tied into an Espionage system though, not only would it help with making espionage useful but it can help make the Ledger more in game then an out of game thing.

just my opinion though.
 
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There are too many blasphemers in this thread. The lack of adoration of massive lists of information and multi-coloured pie graphs is deeply unsettling.

What kind of nerd doesn't like spreadsheets?
Not since a spreadsheet took my job!


We have seen the Diplomacy screen, you can filter to show Non-FTL Civs.
Would be nice to have a list of planets in your space.
Plus yes, even just for fun, breakdowns and charts of the Ethoi and species in your empire.
 

Magnificent Genius

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I love spreadsheets. My ideal girlfriend is someone who will seduce me with expert usage of Microsoft Excel. Need Ledger.
 
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Maybe including a ledger in the espionage DLC would work. Spending resources on your intelligence gathering would fill it out, thus avoiding the CKII ledger thing where it's basically omniscient.
 

Fryslan0109

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People keep saying tooltips can replace the ledger - why not have both. EUIV seens to make competent use of both, and it doesn't have to be immersion-breakingly omniscient (one fault of EUIVs, I'd argue). Perhaps have the content limited to your Empire, surveyed planets, and what you can glean of other Empires from the map (no espionage system yet to refine that). I don't want to have to click on every planet I've surveyed before finding that one planet I thought would be good for a colony... If users don't appreciate it, it's easy enough not to click it.

edit: for the particular example I cite, it would be nice to be able to designate "interesting planets/systems" in the same way one does for characters in CKII and countries in EUIV. That way you could keep track of them, and prioritize construction notifications...
 
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there could be an option to hide the ledger on enemy empires, and IF YOU MUST make it required for iron-man

i really only care about the exact specifics of my own empire, and not relative values. information i can easily get the hard way(counting and calculation), but would rather have the easy way, for immersion.
 
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I've developed BI software for a few government agencies. I can tell you, with 100% assurance, each and every government and military organization runs on spreadsheet-like software. Ideally without pie graphs. Pie graphs are the devil's work. Pie graphs lead to bad decisions. 3D, multi-level donut graphs with gradients are enough to make me cry.

The limiting factor is accuracy of information. Census data, and all reports derived from it, includes the margin of error. If there are too few individual data-points to be statistically valid we need to suppress elements from the output. I'd love to see something similar in a game. "Where the hell did all these rebels come from??? The census didn't include them!" Can be answered with "Rebels don't fill out census forms, doofus." And a smart governor would notice the discrepancy between food consumed and population/taxes reported.

That being said, ministers never see the actual raw data. They are fed canned reports which summarize the same data in a few dozen different ways. And they have meetings with people to go over what's going on based on these reports.

The idea that the player should have to click on dozens of systems to gather some fairly basic information is revolting. This is a game, but by not providing the information the player needs, this turns it into a chore.

Can the people advocating NOT including a ledger honestly say that MOO2 is playable without the ledger screen? While you can play without it, it becomes much less fun and certain features, such as moving pops, would be much more challenging.
 
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I've developed BI software for a few government agencies. I can tell you, with 100% assurance, each and every government and military organization runs on spreadsheet-like software. Ideally without pie graphs. Pie graphs are the devil's work. Pie graphs lead to bad decisions. 3D, multi-level donut graphs with gradients are enough to make me cry.

The limiting factor is accuracy of information. Census data, and all reports derived from it, includes the margin of error. If there are too few individual data-points to be statistically valid we need to suppress elements from the output. I'd love to see something similar in a game. "Where the hell did all these rebels come from??? The census didn't include them!" Can be answered with "Rebels don't fill out census forms, doofus." And a smart governor would notice the discrepancy between food consumed and population/taxes reported.

That being said, ministers never see the actual raw data. They are fed canned reports which summarize the same data in a few dozen different ways. And they have meetings with people to go over what's going on based on these reports.

The idea that the player should have to click on dozens of systems to gather some fairly basic information is revolting. This is a game, but by not providing the information the player needs, this turns it into a chore.

Can the people advocating NOT including a ledger honestly say that MOO2 is playable without the ledger screen? While you can play without it, it becomes much less fun and certain features, such as moving pops, would be much more challenging.

I can almost taste the righteous fury of charts and graphs emanating from your post.
 
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