Does loyalty have its rewards?

[Parallel Pain]

I've asked this when the game just came out. I asked this a couple of years ago. I am asking it now too.

In the other role-playing strategy game I like (Romance of the Three Kingdoms X by Koei), loyalty had its reward. You don't have to play a chronic backstabber constantly plotting to take over kingdoms and stuff. A loyal subject there will be awarded by the AI with land and titles and even (that game's equivalent of) a kingdom. Now leaving aside that game also have personal questing stuff which CKII lacks (but CKII have a lot more stuff to compensate)...

When I first bought the game, I tried to play the loyal vassal and got absolutely nowhere. I came and asked "what about now" a couple years ago, and the answer was nope, still not there.

So again, "What about now"? If I play the loyal vassal would I be rewarded with land, titles, a hand at marriage, etc?

 

[tahlaskerssen]

Sometimes it does and someties it doesnt. It depends. As a count once i had enough counties to form 3 duchies and i ketp declaring independence but the fucking king would keep making me a vassal of some random duke and i was never able to become a duke myself.

So i decided to make the king like me by helping him and letting him educate my family and when i declare independence again, instead of making me a vassal of soem random duke he gave me a duchy. Of course i ended up overthrowing his heir like a boss. But yeah, that proves my point. Sometimes it has its rewards, sometimes it doesn´t.

 

[Parallel Pain]

Sometimes it does and someties it doesnt. It depends. As a count once i had enough counties to form 3 duchies and i ketp declaring independence but the fucking king would keep making me a vassal of some random duke and i was never able to become a duke myself.

So i decided to make the king like me by helping him and letting him educate my family and when i declare independence again, instead of making me a vassal of soem random duke he gave me a duchy. Of course i ended up overthrowing his heir like a boss. But yeah, that proves my point. Sometimes it has its rewards, sometimes it doesn´t.

That's not loyalty...

What I mean is, when my King gets in a civil war and I fight for the king, and contribute a lot of my own troops and get high war contribution, when the King wins he should revoke the title of those disloyal vassals and then reward me a bit of those lands.
When he goes off to try to conquer another country the same should apply. I should be rewarded some of the new lands because I helped a lot. After all he would need someone to administer the land he can't himself. At least make me an "administer the land in his stead".
If I sit loyally on the council and carry out all of his wishes with distinction, I should be given some rewards, title and gold and such. (Also it's be nice if every time I was assigned a task on the council it starts an event chain as I try to accomplish it for my liege). And sitting loyally on the council for a long time should improve my liege's opinions of me (I feel this should apply to my own council).

EDIT: In your case if I want to play a loyal vassal I would be trying my best to help the Duke with stuff, so hopefully when he gets land he gives me a county, or when he becomes King he makes me duke.

 

[Red Earth]

Sometimes it does and someties it doesnt. It depends. As a count once i had enough counties to form 3 duchies and i ketp declaring independence but the fucking king would keep making me a vassal of some random duke and i was never able to become a duke myself.

So i decided to make the king like me by helping him and letting him educate my family and when i declare independence again, instead of making me a vassal of soem random duke he gave me a duchy. Of course i ended up overthrowing his heir like a boss. But yeah, that proves my point. Sometimes it has its rewards, sometimes it doesn´t.

Interesting. Although I wonder if if in the process of getting the king to like you, you came to like him, i.e. your character. How much a character gives his liege in taxes and troops is determined by how much they like him, even when you are that character. So is it possible you became a good source of troops and money and thus wanted you as a direct vassal?

 

[Sergeant Flutter]

Protection.
Increased Opinion.
Possible Titles.
Council Position.
Increased Revenue.
Stability.

However, most players do not go through the route of being a peaceful vassal, for many reasons. *ahem* Bordergore *ahem*

 

[Sergeant Flutter]

That's not loyalty...

What I mean is, when my King gets in a civil war and I fight for the king, and contribute a lot of my own troops and get high war contribution, when the King wins he should revoke the title of those disloyal vassals and then reward me a bit of those lands.
When he goes off to try to conquer another country the same should apply. I should be rewarded some of the new lands because I helped a lot. After all he would need someone to administer the land he can't himself. At least make me an "administer the land in his stead".
If I sit loyally on the council and carry out all of his wishes with distinction, I should be given some rewards, title and gold and such. (Also it's be nice if every time I was assigned a task on the council it starts an event chain as I try to accomplish it for my liege). And sitting loyally on the council for a long time should improve my liege's opinions of me (I feel this should apply to my own council).

EDIT: In your case if I want to play a loyal vassal I would be trying my best to help the Duke with stuff, so hopefully when he gets land he gives me a county, or when he becomes King he makes me duke.

I should've said this in my previous post, but your liege will grant you titles based on opinion and a few other factors. He won't revoke titles for you, but after a Crusade, he's more likely to grant you land.

 

[Parallel Pain]

I should've said this in my previous post, but your liege will grant you titles based on opinion and a few other factors. He won't revoke titles for you, but after a Crusade, he's more likely to grant you land.

Is that he won't revoke titles for me, which I think is good, or he won't revoke titles of even those who rebelled against him, which I think is stupid?

In vanilla I was never rewarded (hence this thread), were there concrete changes in this regard? What are the factors for getting these rewards? And what about land not won from Crusades?

 

[Sergeant Flutter]

Is that he won't revoke titles for me, which I think is good, or he won't revoke titles of even those who rebelled against him, which I think is stupid?

In vanilla I was never rewarded (hence this thread), were there concrete changes in this regard? What are the factors for getting these rewards? And what about land not won from Crusades?

He's less likely to revoke titles from you.

He will not go and revoke titles from random people to grant them to you.

Now, after a rebellion, he may revoke a title from a rebellious vassal and grant it to you.

I said after a Crusade, because every title in the Kingdom is given to the liege. Any other Casus Belli that has a similar result would mean he would be more likely to grant you a title.

But of course the A.I. is picky about De Jure borders, if he captures the rest of a Duchy for a duke, he's more likely to give the rest of the duchy to the duke even if he likes you more.

I hope this makes sense.

 

[Parallel Pain]

Are those title grants tied to higher opinion or higher war contribution? Or are they just randomly parceled out?

Also correct me if I'm wrong but serving loyally on the council or in war doesn't really give me opinion bonus. Or at least didn't in vanilla.

 

[Silent_Thunder]

I know CK2+ mod also if you stay with your leige during a revolt, he often offers you a reward in the form of vastly reduced taxes for 5 or 10 years or so, which can help a TON in eventually overthrowing the trusting idiot in a few generations after you've built up your holdings with the extra dosh.

Really I don't play CK2 without CK2+ these days, it just adds so much that not playing it would be like removing 2 DLCs worth of content. I mean it even has Cadet Branches now.

 

[Sergeant Flutter]

Are those title grants tied to higher opinion or higher war contribution? Or are they just randomly parceled out?

Also correct me if I'm wrong but serving loyally on the council or in war doesn't really give me opinion bonus. Or at least didn't in vanilla.

With the Conclave DLC, voting the same as the liege gives an opinion boost, there are a few other modifiers as well.

As for your first question, I'm not sure which takes precedent, but after you're loyal for a few generations you'll be quite large and powerful. You'll be able to easily out warscore the others.