Does "Inflicted Casualties" on the war screen include sunk ships, downed planes, and supply losses?

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eastcoastceojam

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For the "30 Minutes of HEL" achievement, you need to inflict 1.8 mil casualties on the German armed forces as Poland in the 1939 start. To get a number that high, Poland will need all the help it can get. So my question is, do casualties on the war screen include manpower attached to planes and ships when they are shot down or sunk?

When playing a seafaring nation, I've seen casualties pile up when I sink enemy troop convoys with submarines. But I'm unsure if sinking combat vessels or shooting down planes has any direct effect on the casualty number. My understanding is that much of the manpower attached to planes and ships is for support personnel, not those sailing onboard the ship, or flying the plane.

For example, on the wiki, every Interwar Fighter uses 20 manpower. Since only 1 pilot is required to fly the plane, I assume the other 19 people represent mechanics, trainers, people to replenish the plane's ammo/fuel, etc. Does all 20 manpower counts as lost when that plane gets shot down due to enemy fire? Or does losing a plane not register at all as a casualty?



I have a similar question about troops that are completely cut off from supply, and suffer massive attrition. Once they lost all their equipment, won't they disappear from the map? I swear I've had this happen to me when I invaded Saudi Arabia in one of my first games, and neglected to take a port.

Since the troops basically starved to death while marooned, thanks to my inept leadership, I would think that would count as a war casualty, even though it wasn't from direct engagement.
 
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Bunnytob

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I think it does include MP lost from sunken ships, but AFAIK planes don't cost any MP to lose.
Supply casualties I'm not sure about, but I don't think they show up. I don't think they're actually a thing.
 
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DicRoNero

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But I'm unsure if sinking combat vessels or shooting down planes has any direct effect on the casualty number. My understanding is that much of the manpower attached to planes and ships is for support personnel, not those sailing onboard the ship, or flying the plane.
It's messed up in both ways.

First, no manpower lost on combat ships goes into casualties list. Only that in land units (i.e. divisions) does, regardless whether the divisions suffered losses by enemy fire while at sea convoys or at land; or even by nuke bombing (!)

Second, manpower attached to ships can be lost by ships taking HP damage (in combat, not in training/arctic waters) - up to 50% of the 'personnel'. Then up to 50% when the ship is sunk, which would be multiplied by x1.2 or x1.6 if sunk in arctic or shark-infected waters. I'm not sure how exactly* those bits are multiplied against each other, but naval units taking losses far exceeding what you would consider normal is definitely the case. So while manpower tied up with ships is listed as 'personnel' rather than 'crew aboard', it's in fact something in between those two.

Manpower losses for ships is something that was introduced with MtG, and (as with many other things which MtG failed to address), 'personnel' wasn't re-calculated to take new mechanics into account.

* edit: doing some tests now, will post a thread later.
 
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eastcoastceojam

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it doesn't include either

I think it does include MP lost from sunken ships, but AFAIK planes don't cost any MP to lose.
Supply casualties I'm not sure about, but I don't think they show up. I don't think they're actually a thing.

It's messed up in both ways.

First, no manpower lost on combat ships goes into casualties list. Only that in land units (i.e. divisions) does, regardless whether the divisions suffered losses by enemy fire while at sea convoys or at land; or even by nuke bombing (!)


Thanks for all the info. It's disappointing that air and ship losses aren't included in the total casualty count, but I already had a feeling that this might be the case.

Thanks for the reminder about nuke casualties- I use them so infrequently, I had forgotten they do damage to divisions as well as infrastructure/factories.

I'm following Taureor's Youtube guide for this achievement, where you fire a fascist civil war and join the Axis at the moment of the German invasion. Once the civil war ends, Poland stays independent and out of WWII, until you are ready to join. So I have years to build up before I betray Germany. Plenty of time to add some nukes to my arsenal. :cool:



Second, manpower attached to ships can be lost by ships taking HP damage (in combat, not in training/arctic waters) - up to 50% of the 'personnel'. Then up to 50% when the ship is sunk, which would be multiplied by x1.2 or x1.6 if sunk in arctic or shark-infected waters. I'm not sure how exactly* those bits are multiplied against each other, but naval units taking losses far exceeding what you would consider normal is definitely the case. So while manpower tied up with ships is listed as 'personnel' rather than 'crew aboard', it's in fact something in between those two.


Based on the first part of your post, I'm assuming the ship manpower losses you're discussing above would reduce Germany's manpower pool when their ships take damage, but not count as a casualty inflicted by Poland on the war summary screen? Let me know if I'm misinterpreting.
 

Voigt

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Out of supply divisions don't get deleted on themselfs. But if they completly deorged by lack of supply andthey are surrouned, they require only a single attack command to defeat those divisions and capitulate/delete them.

This is why it seems they would just get deleted if they are out of supply.
 

DicRoNero

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Out of supply divisions don't get deleted on themselfs. But if they completly deorged by lack of supply andthey are surrouned, they require only a single attack command to defeat those divisions and capitulate/delete them.

This is why it seems they would just get deleted if they are out of supply.
Are you sure of that? IIRC I saw them dissolving on losing *all* of the equipment (which apparently takes far longer than simply getting 0 org).
 

Voigt

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I am not 100% sure. If a division has 0% strength they are deleted, since they don't exist anymore. But I think aslong as you have manpower you always have strength, even with literally 0 equipment.

And attrition only kills equipment, not man.