Does HOI4 use a 64 bit .exe file and the Clauswitz engine?

[semaphore]

I'm asking because the latest exe for HOI3 tfh is a 32 bit exe that gives us access to about 3.5 GB of the RAM we have installed. It is my understanding that a 64 bit exe file will give access to at least 8 GB of RAM.

I seriously doubt that they'll start needing more than 3gb RAM in this generation of Clauswitz games, considering EU4 still gets by fine using not much more than 1gb. People have very limited understanding of computing and will jump down your throat for saying this, but the bottleneck is still CPU, not RAM amount.

64 bit lets you use up to 512gb of RAM with the right versions of windows. It doesn't give you "at least" anything; that still depends on how much you actually have available in the machine.

 

[Had a dad]

I'm asking because the latest exe for HOI3 tfh is a 32 bit exe that gives us access to about 3.5 GB of the RAM we have installed. It is my understanding that a 64 bit exe file will give access to at least 8 GB of RAM.

in tech support there is the LAA exe which will give you access to any amount of ram you want

Also the current one gave you access to 2gb, the 32 bit OS has all applications limited to 3.5 gb ram which has nothing to do with any game exe

 

[Xeorm]

Most of the hardware that doesnt support 64bit probably already broke down and wouldnt be compatible with modern operating systems anyway since they are simply to slow. The first 64bit desktop processor was release 13 years ago by AMD.

Anyway, we are offrailing a bit from the original topic anyway, so we probably should end the discussion there. Let's agree on that there might be some good reason for still making 32bit a thing even if it hinders progress.

Just so you're aware, not all CPU architecture can do 64bit. It's not only the OS that needs to be 64 bit capable, but also the CPU itself. It's usually better not to switch unless you have more than 4 gigs of memory, as you'd get a performance loss without gaining the benefit of additional memory.

please oh please tell me what are the advantages of having a pure 64bit application?

Design, mostly. A company that's designed for 64 bit and not 32 bit can design ahead of time with having more RAM. It's not done often because RAM isn't much of a bottleneck for many games. The only one I recall really pushing it gaming wise is Stardock, given their hefty focus on AI. AI's one of the few things in gaming that can be limited by RAM.

 

[Raptor83]

in tech support there is the LAA exe which will give you access to any amount of ram you want
.....

That is flase - LAA flag for 32bit application will not provide you access to maximum of 3GB RAM under 32bit OS and 4GB under 64bit OS

 

[Raptor83]

Just so you're aware, not all CPU architecture can do 64bit. It's not only the OS that needs to be 64 bit capable, but also the CPU itself.
..........

Last 32bit PC CPU was made about 10 years ago...... and its performance was most likely below minimal requirements for HoI4....

 

[Had a dad]

That is flase - LAA flag for 32bit application will not provide you access to maximum of 3GB RAM under 32bit OS and 4GB under 64bit OS

see subject of this thread. My statement was accurate based on it

 

[Raptor83]

see subject of this thread. My statement was accurate based on it

As a standalone statement, it was inaccurate + its possible that HoI4 will in the future need more RAM, than 32 bit LAA can provide

Since HoI3, I take dev statements with a large margin, for possible errors.

 

[PaxHadrian]

It seems like I opened up Pandora's Box and that I oversimplified the limitations of an exe file versus the various OS that Paradox fans have access to when they are enjoying the different strategy games out there. Sorry about the oversimplification! I am not a tech person nor do I have the background to know whether the RAM bottleneck is OS based, exe based or some combination. I'll read this forum thread and learn from those of you who do know (and thanks for your replies btw).

I simply wanted to understand how HOI4 was built - 32 bit versus 64 bit, and how much RAM the exe file will allow access to (if the OS is not the limiting factor). For myself, I am running an Intel i7-4710MQ CPU @ 2.50GHz, 2501 Mhz, 4 Core(s), 8 Logical Processor(s), a Titan video card and 16 GB of RAM in a Windows 8 environment, so I believe that my CPU and processor can handle unmodded HOI3/HOI4 + any DLC that comes out -- and if HOI has an AI that needs more horses than that - I would like to challenge it to a duel over Europe... .

I enjoy HOI3 tfh as well as various mods, some of which seem to take RAM use beyond 3.5 GB of RAM (according to my resource monitor when I get a CTD crash or an outright crash). I don't know if there is any exe solution for enhancing RAM use while playing heavily modded HOI3 tfh (beyond Podcat's 32 bit exe for HOI3 tfh - thank you for that Podcat!). Hitting the RAM 'wall' prompted my questions for HOI4.

I enjoy the HOI series enough that I wanted to understand what level of system resources basic, unmodded, pre-DLC HOI4 needed to run. To part of my original question, does it use, for ex., 1 GB of RAM when the game reaches 1943? Any modding that we do to HOI4 will add to the RAM load (again - not a systems expert so I don't know how much the load will increase). If HOI4 was already using 3 GB of RAM in mid-game, then that would appear to offer limited room to grow where modding would add to RAM use. If RAM use is at 1 GB in mid-game, then modding would appear to have significant room to grow without hitting the RAM ceiling.

I thought that the above level of background was too much for my initial question but I am including it here to help those reading/responding better understand the 'why' behind my questions.

Thanks again for those reading/taking the time to respond to my questions!

 

[semaphore]

I enjoy the HOI series enough that I wanted to understand what level of system resources basic, unmodded, pre-DLC HOI4 needed to run.

Until the game is finished or at least in beta, this can't really be answered (at, not by us or to very precise degrees).

To part of my original question, does it use, for ex., 1 GB of RAM when the game reaches 1943? Any modding that we do to HOI4 will add to the RAM load (again - not a systems expert so I don't know how much the load will increase).

The bulk of memory increase in mods is probably going to be graphics. Unless you play a mod that goes crazy with this, or have a much bigger map somehow, it ought not be a big issue.

 

[Had a dad]

As a standalone statement, it was inaccurate + its possible that HoI4 will in the future need more RAM, than 32 bit LAA can provide

Since HoI3, I take dev statements with a large margin, for possible errors.

as applied to the thread it was accurate. If you have trouble understanding that statements made inside a thread are about the subject matter of the thread....

 

[inteljoe]

I know PDX games are mostly calculation based. Basically a ton of math from all the dice rolls.

So having a beefy CPU would be better than having more than 8gb of RAM.

But what if you could run HoI4 on a cluster? Say a node of 64x 6 (or 8) core Xeon's? Does that mean you could go from 1936 to 1948 in a heartbeat. I wonder...

 

[Raptor83]

I know PDX games are mostly calculation based. Basically a ton of math from all the dice rolls.

So having a beefy CPU would be better than having more than 8gb of RAM.

But what if you could run HoI4 on a cluster? Say a node of 64x 6 (or 8) core Xeon's? Does that mean you could go from 1936 to 1948 in a heartbeat. I wonder...

I doubt, that this game will effectively scale beyond 4-6 cores. This engine is IMO just too old for really effective multicore support.

 

[LordOfWar16]

In all the other threads about this topic, it was said clearly that HoI4 won't ever come close to using more than 4GB of RAM and that CPU will be the most limiting factor, as in any Paradox game.

Most people are way to obsessed with RAM. You may need up to 8GB for certain games, but please tell me how its even possible to need more than that for gaming without letting a ton of programms run unnecessarily in the background.

32bit doesnt limit you to 4gb of ram but to 4gb of user adressable memory. Videocard memory does count towards that aswell, even if not at an 1:1 ration, just to be clear. I am perfectly fine with the game being 32bit, its only the reasonign and argumentation that i dont fully agree with.

64bit CPU's exist since an decade now and everyone that has an windows license can install the 64bit windows for free. Thats why i dont really agree on the statement that they would "exclude" anyone if they went with 64bit. If they went with dx12 for whatever reason then yes, since you need windows 10 and an modern videocard for that, which can cause additional cost for some people.

Multi-Core support is something different of course, but that has its technical limits aswell especially when it comes to videogames, which has nothing to do with 32bit or 64bit. The only games that really benefit from 64bit as of right now are games like Star Citizen for example. In HoI III you will probably see no improvement whatsoever, especially since the game doesnt push hard on the Vram of the videocard and i doubt that it will scratch at the 4gb limit aswell.

If you look at the reccomended system specifications the game should run perfectly fine on an 4gb system without much problems. Besides that i highly doubt that they would make an game that breaks in late game due to reaching limitations.

 

[PaxHadrian]

Until the game is finished or at least in beta, this can't really be answered (at, not by us or to very precise degrees).

I was hoping that one of the developers would comment (recognizing that this would only be an estimate for a game that is still in development). While I know that they have released rev's of HOI4 to certain members of the community, I don't know if these are late Alpha/early Beta and anyone who has access, outside a developer, is likely bound by some form of non disclosure agreement.

 

[Thrawn21]

so you're saying that all that is achieved is a < 4% savings in disk space and roughly a 1-3% increase in speed?

and the fact that an application can be made Large Address Aware even if it is 32 bit. Yep I now see the light, HOI4 should be delayed a year or 2 while they convert the core engine to 64 bit

You got me wrong there, the slight increase in performance is not for 64 bit, but for 32 bit applications.
Unless memory is getting a bottleneck, there is no need to run a programm as 64 bit.

 

[GsusNSV]

I was hoping that one of the developers would comment (recognizing that this would only be an estimate for a game that is still in development).

A quick search for 64 bit with "Posted by Member: Podcat" will give you his response to this subject.

64-bit is just marketing. I have yet to see any game that would benefit from it. Most code might even run slower because of cache sizes etc

That and going 64-bit doesnt really have much benefit for the customers that can use it either. its mainly a convenience thing for us.

 

[zyphial]

Pretty sure its 32 bit because many people are idiots and still run 32 bit

These are Steam's statistics, which are easy to find:

Windows 7 64 bit
34.81%
-0.82%

Windows 10 64 bit
31.25%
+2.44%

Windows 8.1 64 bit
15.09%
-1.41%

Windows 7
7.77%
-0.07%

Windows XP 32 bit
2.17%
+0.01%

Windows 8 64 bit
2.03%
-0.11%

Windows 10
1.21%
+0.17%

Windows 8.1
0.40%
-0.02%

Windows Vista 32 bit
0.30%
-0.02%

Windows 8
0.17%
-0.01%

Windows Vista 64 bit
0.15%
-0.03%

----

However, it doesn't make someone "stupid" to use a 32bit OS. Elitism isn't funny, its an embarrassment.

 

[grandad1982]

These are Steam's statistics, which are easy to find:

Windows 7 64 bit
34.81%
-0.82%

Windows 10 64 bit
31.25%
+2.44%

Windows 8.1 64 bit
15.09%
-1.41%

Windows 7
7.77%
-0.07%

Windows XP 32 bit
2.17%
+0.01%

Windows 8 64 bit
2.03%
-0.11%

Windows 10
1.21%
+0.17%

Windows 8.1
0.40%
-0.02%

Windows Vista 32 bit
0.30%
-0.02%

Windows 8
0.17%
-0.01%

Windows Vista 64 bit
0.15%
-0.03%

----

However, it doesn't make someone "stupid" to use a 32bit OS. Elitism isn't funny, its an embarrassment.

Removed the the ill advised idiot but I fail to see how it's elitism and therefore I'm not embarrassed.

 

[Swinds]

Yeah, but still. They can easiely switch to 64bit for free. Nobody gets excluded there. If they have an Mac or Linux PC however, they have to buy an windows licence if they opt with an windows only game.

People dont realize that it is wrong that with 32bit you can only access 4gb of ram. That 4gb limit is for user addressable memory in total and videocard memory does count towards that limit aswell. Not on an 1:1 ration, tho. So having an 4gb videocard and 4gb of ram actually does mean that you cant even access the whole 4gb of ram.

It is an miracle that microsoft released an 32bit version of Windows 10 in the first place.

Microsoft released the 32bit version that works beautifully on my Linx 10 tablet. It does not play games. I have installed Steam on it so this would be included on the list. I installed steam to try games, which went badly. CK2 was very slow. So I tried to run my Gaming rig, Windows 10 64 bit and use the Steam app to play the game remotely which worked a treat.

HOI3 on my tablet via my Gaming Rig. Windows 32bit has it's place. I would expect people who have an expensive gaming rig would have Win 7/10 64 bit and the win 8/10 32 bit version is for other devices that still have steam installed.

My points are do not read what you want into the steam figures they are not black and white. PDX have made the decision to use 32 bits which looking at the game this is not a hindrance. We need to stop being upset over something that we can't change by pointing at things we do not know to be true, like 'mods need more than 4 Gig'.

 

[Peter Wass]

Elitism isn't funny, its an embarrassment.

Elitism is a wonderful thing, it is merely a question of identifying the right criteria to establish the elite.