Does anyone feel trade income is too strong in certain nodes?

[Halaberiel]

Just in general trade income is really strong in that it totally blows any other income out of the water at any point in the game for almost everyone. Certain nodes are also way way stronger than others, namely end nodes or other centers like Malacca / Caribbean / Constantinople / Sinai. Japan for instance has a terrible trade network (like really bad), as does Ming or anyone in SEA besides Malacca which makes their income way lower than other nations. Strange considering how much important the economy of Japan is in real life. You'd mostly be better off sending a merchant to malacca and collecting there than in Japan that's how crazy it is, even if your trade power is terrible. I'm fairly new to the game so I don't know how it was in the past but I just seem to find myself doing the same things every game especially if I'm European. Is it even possible to build a nation such as Japan with a strong economy with their trade route as bad as it is.

 

[Sunspawn]

End nodes are OP - everyone keeps saying it and it doesn't stop being true with repetition.

I personally think that trade should flow in all direction instead of being syphoned to several magical holes that fill the pockets of Iberia, the english, french, lubeckers and Venetians with loads of gold.

 

[Halaberiel]

That's what I mean. You can be a huge empire like China & have terrible trade income because there is no flexibility in the system. If you can't steer trade to your country you can't steer trade to your country & that's that.

 

[Maerd]

I personally think that trade should flow in all direction instead of being syphoned to several magical holes that fill the pockets of Iberia, the english, french, lubeckers and Venetians with loads of gold.

This. The mechanics should make it possible for those nations to make it happen but not by doing nothing and getting rich as it is now.

 

[aqvamare]

It would be already enough...when they made in the middle of europe on really big only land node, which is the only end node in game, feeded by channel, sevilla, bordeaux...etc.

So you cannot buff an endnode with your fleets into oblivion of trade power...

 

[Oryxslayer]

That's what I mean. You can be a huge empire like China & have terrible trade income because there is no flexibility in the system. If you can't steer trade to your country you can't steer trade to your country & that's that.

To be honest, most bloby land powers I have played don't rely on trade and instead go tax/production with admin/economic ideas. As Qing, I currently am making close to 400 ducats per month net, more then enough I might add, with only 75 of them coming from my trade network. But, in most of my games, money is just a number that goes away after 1550.

 

[Pilon23]

The problem with this is that if you fully control 3 nodes, you could potentially make an infinite loop by transferring from node A to B to C to A.

 

[greendevil]

European nodes are currently way too wealthy. Try starting with someone who can collect decently in Lubeck or English Channel. You will swim in gold right from the start. It's ridiculous.

 

[PiriReis]

I personally think that trade should flow in all direction instead of being syphoned to several magical holes that fill the pockets of Iberia, the english, french, lubeckers and Venetians with loads of gold.

More trade-routes would be nice but it shouldn't be possible to make an infinite loop.

 

[Stategem161803]

You can be a god of trade income by just conquering Portugal and Andalucia and moving your trade port there. Sevilla is crazy rich, especially when you factor in TP propagation.

It makes the whole RP facet of the game really frustrating at times. I mean, yeah, Sevilla should be OP to an extent, but man, is it rich.

 

[Halaberiel]

You can be a god of trade income by just conquering Portugal and Andalucia and moving your trade port there. Sevilla is crazy rich, especially when you factor in TP propagation.

It makes the whole RP facet of the game really frustrating at times. I mean, yeah, Sevilla should be OP to an extent, but man, is it rich.

Yes but this is entirely the problem. As I said, every game is the same, either move your trade port to Sevilla, English Channel, or Venice. Steer trade from Malacca to Zanzibar & around Africa if you base in Sevilla or English Channel. To Bengal, around India & through Alexandria if you base in Venice. Control Caribbean and you control basically all trade in N. America, the other nodes are worthless since this node siphons most of the trade.

Perhaps I just play trade games too much but the lack of dynamic gameplay kinda kills it for me sometimes. Then you have the problem that you can only play certain nations with a trade focus, since as I said countries such as Japan are garbage due to the fixed nature of trade routes. How are you suppose to make any money when you only have 1/2 trade routes going into your country and neither of them are especially rich.

 

[Autoclave]

Few key problems

1. Light ship spam in end nodes
2. Power progatation downstream
3. The same source of trade power is increased by bonuses in the original node and again it's propagation value in the upstream node.

Imagine you had +10% trade power bonus.
Got a province with 10 trade power. The total trade power would be 10.1. This number gets propagated (20% of it) into upstream nodes. That is multiplied again by the 10% trade power bonus.

 

[Zak Preston]

I always wondered why can't players change endnodes and trade directions?
For example redirect stream from Constantinople to Aleppo and make your own trade heaven ))

 

[Autoclave]

I always wondered why can't players change endnodes and trade directions?
For example redirect stream from Constantinople to Aleppo and make your own trade heaven ))

It is designed to represent regions with purchasing power. Those end nodes are places with highest demand for goods, thats why they generate money.

On a side note, when english merchants arrived in china, they were surprised that chinesse had no interest in anything european.

 

[Squirrelloid]

It is designed to represent regions with purchasing power. Those end nodes are places with highest demand for goods, thats why they generate money.

On a side note, when english merchants arrived in china, they were surprised that chinesse had no interest in anything european.

The chinese example is an oddball example, though. Most trade is significantly bi-directional or something even more complicated. Most nations and peoples were not like China.

And if nothing else, that means cash should be flowing towards these places that don't want anything except your precious metals, not away from them. Those goods ending up in Europe must mean European cash (or goods) is going the other direction. So, if anything, the trade system is backwards.

 

[DKinator]

Certainly. But AI utilizing trade is still a problem. If you're playing a trade nation competing with others, you will still dominate trade to a startling degree. The AI simply doesn't utilize trade fleets. They build maybe a few light ships and call it a day. A lot of nations should build only light ships. This is especially true for someone like England. They have absolutely no use for all those heavies early. It just actively eats into their pockets when they could build a much more powerful trade fleet that will give them money. Navies are still a big problem for the AI and I'm not entirely sure how the devs can tackle it.