You can get economic like 100 years (at least) earlier than the other two. How would it be even possible you could get a 1000 dude army without a 1000/month salary?
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does anyone even use the other hegemonies?
- Thread starter jamal bakr
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Military is better for WC runs. If you already have 1000 ducats/mo income, it's not out of the question to make buildings/investments that increase force limit, and you obviously have the money to pay for the bodies. Military shouldn't be too much slower to attain than economic due to that, couple decades at most. Especially if you went quantity.
If you have requirements for economic hegemon, you don't need the bonuses of goods produced or governing capacity. But -war score cost and siege ability both remain useful until WC/one tag is completed, and -3 unrest is definitely a nice bonus to have as well (for basic sanity, or to push OE > 100% by 60% more).
I don't know why you'd ever pick naval hegemon in SP.
If you have requirements for economic hegemon, you don't need the bonuses of goods produced or governing capacity. But -war score cost and siege ability both remain useful until WC/one tag is completed, and -3 unrest is definitely a nice bonus to have as well (for basic sanity, or to push OE > 100% by 60% more).
I don't know why you'd ever pick naval hegemon in SP.
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wow... i must suck at economy... i only able to get the military hegemony instead of the economic one...
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You could definitely get naval hegemony way earlier than the others if you specifically built for it. Lots of nations can stack +100% or more naval forcelimit very quickly and shipyards give base +2 naval force limit compared to regimental camp's +1 land force limit. From there 250 mothballed heavies only costs 50 maintenance.
As to why you would do this? Hell if I know. Naval Hegemony bonuses to navy are irrelevant because you already have 250 heavy ships, +20% artillery bonus is still fairly weak early game (and you just made a fuckhuge navy when you could have made a fuckhuge army), and there's way cheaper and more direct ways of lowering vassal liberty desire. Maybe there's some kind of meme blockade strategy you could do where you start a war against the whole world and blockade everything for... reasons?
As to why you would do this? Hell if I know. Naval Hegemony bonuses to navy are irrelevant because you already have 250 heavy ships, +20% artillery bonus is still fairly weak early game (and you just made a fuckhuge navy when you could have made a fuckhuge army), and there's way cheaper and more direct ways of lowering vassal liberty desire. Maybe there's some kind of meme blockade strategy you could do where you start a war against the whole world and blockade everything for... reasons?
Oh yeah, no doubt military is better, but getting a 1000 person army is much more difficult than getting a 1000 per month income. Maybe if you play as a land based coring speciailist like Russia/Qing/Mughals etc you can get to that big of an army first.
Naval hegemon will never be optimal. But if you want to go full boat meme lord, you can run maritime + naval + mothball + fleet in being to decrease maintenance costs further, privateer a lot, and put your bloated sailor count to work by spamming marines. Portuguese marines doctrine for another +50% marines would let you only use sailors for front line if you want, though maintaining ships will cost a bit more then. Keep in mind, base sailors is a lot lower than manpower. +200% will still not not quite get 1 diplo development to give as many sailors as 1 military development gives manpower. So you will probably want a mix of marines and regulars. But if you're doing memes with these groups, you might as well take whatever you can get from them.
That would still let you run admin + religious or humanist + diplomatic + influence, so you could probably manage a one tag with that nonsense. It will be strictly worse than picking good groups, though being untouchable in the water and mass privateering/doing marine landing runby tactics would at least be amusing.
Assuming you have the province count to make the buildings, getting a FL of 1000 would take ~20 years of building regimental camps. But that's with no economic ideas, no other construction cost modifiers, no NIs giving FL, and no quantity ideas. With quantity alone, you will reach the required force limit in 14 years.
Maybe you don't want to spend the next 10-20 years doing nothing but one building type. But even if you don't do that, I don't see how this is getting anywhere near "100 years later". Once you have this kind of income, it's not hard to drop the buildings that would let you reach the other two hegemon statuses relatively quickly.
That would still let you run admin + religious or humanist + diplomatic + influence, so you could probably manage a one tag with that nonsense. It will be strictly worse than picking good groups, though being untouchable in the water and mass privateering/doing marine landing runby tactics would at least be amusing.
At 1000 ducats/mo, you can increase your base force limit by 5/mo. Or let's be conservative and say you want to spend 200/mo on other expenses while setting this up.
Assuming you have the province count to make the buildings, getting a FL of 1000 would take ~20 years of building regimental camps. But that's with no economic ideas, no other construction cost modifiers, no NIs giving FL, and no quantity ideas. With quantity alone, you will reach the required force limit in 14 years.
Maybe you don't want to spend the next 10-20 years doing nothing but one building type. But even if you don't do that, I don't see how this is getting anywhere near "100 years later". Once you have this kind of income, it's not hard to drop the buildings that would let you reach the other two hegemon statuses relatively quickly.
The difference, in my experience, is that the economy tends to boom very much faster with less attention given to it. If you actually take solid care to expand your army in tandem with your economy, getting 1M soldiers isn't very far behind getting 1k income. If you don't, you can very easily get 1K income while being hundreds of thousands of men away from getting 1M soldiers, and it seems like a much bigger investment. Particularly, at least for me, this comes down to manpower more than money. In SP, I usually don't expand my armies unless I have credible reason to (being challenged by a rival, for example, or starting to creep up on the Ottoman borders) which frequently means my army size is lagging so far behind my FL. This means I might simply not have enough MP banked to become Military Hegemon without expanding my army over a few decades.
Now, if I don't do that and constantly spend my MP and income to have the biggest army I can field, it's not particularly difficult to get Military Hegemon at par with, or even before hitting 1K income.
Now, if I don't do that and constantly spend my MP and income to have the biggest army I can field, it's not particularly difficult to get Military Hegemon at par with, or even before hitting 1K income.
province count is the biggest problem, to get +1 from regimental camp province needs to be in the state and you don't have the gov capacity to do that at the point you can get to 1k income. It is possible to get to 1k income mid XVI century so before admin tech 17. Your max gov capacity would be 200 base + 400 from empire + 500 from estates + 450 (3x 150) from mughal government reforms + 200 from technology - thats 1750 gov capacity. You can add to this 15% from monument and 25% from admin tech but that is only 2450, still not enough to state so many provinces.
The fastest way to get to 1k FL is probably HRE vassal swarm
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About when are you getting 1k? There are a few people out there with enough experience to 1 tag the world before 1500, but generally speaking I expect vast majority of players to be there significantly later than that.
with normal playing between 1550-1600. After tech 12 but before tech 17 so I don't get more gov capacity fromtechnology. I think usually after tech 14 when I unlock more manufacturies
Well how strong is that artillery damage from back row modifier you get from Naval hegemon? Seems like if you're playing Spain with their insane artillery, that 20% damage bonus could be extremely strong. But maybe it sounds better than it actually is.
In SP arty damage from back row is dumpstered by siege ability, even ignoring the other benefits in favor of military. Even with AI rework, vast majority of winning wars is sieging. Maybe moreso than ever with the overtuned fort spam.
I'd imagine that you could cover governing cap with courthouses enough to make some states. Depends if you have quantity/other FL NIs too though. It's a lot easier to hit 500-666 base FL than straight up hitting 1k. Budgetmonk made a push for military hegemon in that timeframe IIRC in his "GOAT" campaign.
Quantity + diplo gives you 60% with policy, so if you're getting anything from NIs or trading in grain you can probably get there with some investment.
It's relatively easy for me to get the economic hegemon for me. It is just a late game thing, that's my problem. You can obtain 1000 golds/month with production and trade. Try playing as Ottomans, or any colonizer nation.
I also see Ottomans becoming military hegemon time to time. So, I understand that hegemons are possible even for NPCs
I also see Ottomans becoming military hegemon time to time. So, I understand that hegemons are possible even for NPCs
That +20% GC modifier was very useful in my Prussian run. Combine that with -20% minimum autonomy and any capacity issues are gone. Keeping the Prussian government makes microing easier.
You can get the naval one before economic. Quite easy to get a crazy high naval force limit as a colonial nation.
But yeah, I'm a whore for minimum autonomy in territories so never use anything other than economic anyway.
But yeah, I'm a whore for minimum autonomy in territories so never use anything other than economic anyway.