Does anyone else think the actual Crusades need some love?

[Riekopo]

Considering the title of the game I think the Crusades part of the game is kind of weak. I personally think they need some love. I really think there needs to be more going on between the Byzantines and the incoming Crusaders.

 

[kmh42]

This topic again? Every month the same but OK.
Yes, they should definitely need some love but this is unlikely to happen.
First: the current mechanic fits other religions and broader circumstances. A more specific/historical crusade mechanic would be hard to balance and to adapt all this Great Holy Wars of other religions.
Second: the name Crusader Kings 2 is old and the devs stick with it despite the fact the game doesn't cover this topic very good anymore. They want to focus on other stuff.

 

[Dahoota]

I think you'd be hard pressed to find someone on these forums who doesn't think they need some love. This topic pops up pretty regularly. I also agree - they haven't had much love since the early days of the game.

The response from the devs is that they generally seem to regret the name "Crusader Kings" as the idea of the game wasn't supposed to be focused on the crusades - it was a marketing decision.

IMO it was a pretty smart marketing decision though as it's probably what made me interested in the game from the start while browsing steam years ago and basically got me into most other PDS titles.

 

[Frank327]

You mean stuff like:

- You can only assign commanders to an army inside your demesne
- If you're commanding an army outside your realm you trigger a regency
- The papal army counts as a rally point that other armies attach to to create a doomstack
- Said doomstack (and other big crusading armies) trigger events while marching through neutral lands (like byzantium)
- Option to request support from the rulers whose lands you march through to increase supply limit in their realm in exchange for gold
- Events for bolstering your crusade army while marching through catholic lands that didn't join the crusade
- Bigger bonuses for having your ruler command the army in terms of morale and events.
- Reduce the chance of your ruler dying in combat a bit (also based on personal combat skill) to make sure it's not as huge of a risk as it is now
- Chance for unlanded commanders that don't stand to inherit to get a duchy/county in the conquered territory if the crusade is won

Because I hope stuff like that eventually gets added. Especially not allowing commanders to "teleport" anymore because it would add a lot of decision making to crusading. You're basically risking your realm to get the prestige, crusader trait and maybe the kingdom of jerusalem. And with the new game rules it wouldn't cause too much controversy because people who don't like that can turn it off.

 

[sreckom92]

I just saw a Crusade for Jerusalem in my game. It was a success, and the HRE took the entire Kingdom.
Except for one province.
Jerusalem.


People keep saying how the name of the game is just for marketing. The game should not solely focus on Crusades.
I agree.

But please, at least bring some sense into it.
If the Kingdom of Jerusalem exists, but is surrounded by a massive Muslim realm, the absolutely first priority for the Pope must be to protect the Holy Land. Not to focus it's attention on Andalusia or wherever.
A Crusade for Jerusalem where you do not take the actual Jerusalem is not a success. Maybe a partial success, like it was the case with the Lionheart's Crusade, but definitely not the full achievement. I mean, your goal was to liberate the Holy City, but you liberated everything except for the very target.

 

[Heiliges Thüringens Reich]

I just saw a Crusade for Jerusalem in my game. It was a success, and the HRE took the entire Kingdom.
Except for one province.
Jerusalem.

Heh, in my HRE game the Crusade got almost everything... except for some little lands above (half of Tripoli's duckhy).

Another funny thing is that stuff like Edessa and Antioch isn't part of the first Crusade in this game...

 

[BrianJohnson]

Some very good ideas, Frank. I think that Jerusalem should be the main target for crusades and jihads. If Muslims have it, the Pope should go after nothing else. If the Christians have it, the Muslims should go after nothing else, no matter how many failed attempts.

 

[Ezumiyr]

This topic again? Every month the same but OK.
Yes, they should definitely need some love but this is unlikely to happen.
First: the current mechanic fits other religions and broader circumstances. A more specific/historical crusade mechanic would be hard to balance and to adapt all this Great Holy Wars of other religions.
Second: the name Crusader Kings 2 is old and the devs stick with it despite the fact the game doesn't cover this topic very good anymore. They want to focus on other stuff.

It doesn't need to be Crusades-only mechanics, and even so, the catholic religion is one of the most common of the map in all start dates.
Almost each game is going to have crusades. Like it or not, this game features crusades. Even the devs have to understand that (but actually, I don't think they would disagree, the "Crusader Kings is a name the devs don't like" is an argument I see often to support the idea that the game should focus on fantasy events, and should absolutely not do anything about crusades) - you can't make a game that features a historically believable medieval Europe without a good mechanics for Crusades.

If you want to make a game that features funny religions like the adepts of Zun or obscure orthodox heresies, you've got to make an fully alternate history game.

I really like Frank327's ideas by the way. More inter-religious relations would also be nice. Crusaders don't just send missionaries do convert the population, but it is also needed for areas like Andalusia or India.

 

[Jon Janosik]

Some very good ideas, Frank. I think that Jerusalem should be the main target for crusades and jihads. If Muslims have it, the Pope should go after nothing else. If the Christians have it, the Muslims should go after nothing else, no matter how many failed attempts.

In my opinion the fact that the crusades are not always targeted at the holy land makes for a more interesting gameplay experiance. It adds a bit of unpredictability and makes it more useful for nations that don't necessarily want/need jerusalum. Though to your point I do think there should be a bias towards the holy land when declaring crusades, but still keep the current more random system.

 

[zerosius]

With CK2 nearing the end of its lifecycle i think this is one topic they really should be adressing in one of the last dlcs. A General religion improving dlc with mechanics and events around:
- Crusades
- Playable theocracies
- More fleshed out heresies
- More Interaction between ruler and church
- Introduction of monasteries as a holding type
- More Interaction with it, making he monk and nun characters actually do something
- Ecumenical councils

 

[Frank327]

With CK2 nearing the end of its lifecycle i think this is one topic they really should be adressing in one of the last dlcs. A General religion improving dlc with mechanics and events around:
- Crusades
- Playable theocracies
- More fleshed out heresies
- More Interaction between ruler and church
- Introduction of monasteries as a holding type
- More Interaction with it, making he monk and nun characters actually do something
- Ecumenical councils

And perhaps most importantly in terms of improving the catholic experience, more excommunications! Living the sinful lifestyle doesn't feel like it's being punished at all. Of course the sinful lifestyle was very common back then but maybe more initiative from the pope and rivals to get excommunications would make it more interesting. But that's something for the patch notes.

 

[Nameless_Ensign]

A General religion improving dlc with mechanics and events around:

We already had that, Sons of Abraham.

 

[zerosius]

We already had that, Sons of Abraham.

Not enugh unfortunately, barely scratched the surface

 

[Ghostbear_g]

Since i have yet to see a Crusade successfully completed, the one thing i really want is the ability to rally all the crusading armies into 1 place to create a single concentrated army. In my experience the Muslim defenders create 1 or 2 25K armies and go around playing wack-a-mole. The crusaders trickle in with a dozen different 5k-10k armies and each gets crushed one at a time. If the crusaders could just bring them together into 1 single army they could actually defeat the Muslims.

 

[Sergeant Flutter]

Also, there are no Crusader States.....

 

[onetthome]

In my play throughs unless the player intervenes the crusaders only succeed like 20% of the time. I would pay $20 for a crusade expansion

 

[tywinzo]

Considering the title of the game I think the Crusades part of the game is kind of weak. I personally think they need some love. I really think there needs to be more going on between the Byzantines and the incoming Crusaders.

Yep. And christian monasticism in general.

 

[sreckom92]

In my play throughs unless the player intervenes the crusaders only succeed like 20% of the time. I would pay $20 for a crusade expansion

Twenty percent success rate is no worse than actual history.