DoD: FOCUS TREES OF HUNGARY
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I thought the events for restoring the Austro-Hungarian empire a little weak. The last 3 or 4 only give you claims on the land. Unless you align to another party you still cannot justify war goals for these until world tension hits 50%.
I agree,but I think events need to make sense, for example my last game with Hungary:
1- Referedum >>> annexed Austria (Austria is Fascist / Hungary is Non-Aligned)
2- Protect Czechoslovakia >>> Is declined >>> Hungary wins a claim over Czechoslovakia (Why? because they declined the defense?).
3- Hungary can not declare war, your need 50% WT
4- Germany annexes the Sudetes >>> Later, attack Czechoslovakia
5- Peace conference (Germany/Czechoslovakia) >>> I annexed Czechoslovakia (Why?)
This "Railroad" is meaningless.
The fact they even put the idea of restoring the Austro-Hungarian Empire back in the game is on par with the plausibility of the United Kingdom reclaiming the Thirteen Colonies.
The Austro-Hungarian Empire was a wicked, oppressive and dying state and once it was broken up there's no way the cultural minorities that suffered under the Hapsburg would ever have let it happen a second time.
The Austro-Hungarian Empire was a wicked, oppressive and dying state and once it was broken up there's no way the cultural minorities that suffered under the Hapsburg would ever have let it happen a second time.
If you just ignore the whole left part of the tree, it's quite decent. I like the military and industrial parts of it a lot, and the communist and fascist routes are... allright.
If you just ignore the whole left part of the tree, it's quite decent. I like the military and industrial parts of it a lot, and the communist and fascist routes are..
that I would disagree to, it had its issues, but in many regards it worked remarkly well it offered its citizens quite a lot. Compared with the Russian or Ottoman empire it was quite a good living, let alone compare it to the colonial empires. The austro-hungarian empire invested a lot in infrastructure and education - money that lacked in the military budget. The first world war did not decide who was right, just who had the better army, and later day historians of the victorious powers had to justify as a just struggle when it was nothing else than the last cabinet war.
To build on this, the post Great War economic situation in southern Europe was rather dire. With smaller borders came less trade, and local economies were forced to generalize in production rather than specialize. Quality of life generally went down rather than up as a result of Austria-Hungary's breakup. Then the great depression landed on top of an already struggling region.
Exactly, one couldn´t say it better.
Maybe.
However, one rotten egg in an omelette spoils the entire omelette. My first impression was also profundly negative, as the Austro-Hungarian nonsense overshadows evything else in the tree.
Oh yes, that's why I call it the Austro-Hungarian-Alien-Space-Bat Empire, as that's the only way that a country which was collapsing slowly by 1914 could have been brought back after the genie of independence had been let out of the bottle (Just look at how well Spain did in trying to get back its empire in the Americas after Bolivar and friends went on their romp).
It is especially disappointing as it means Austria misses out on Otto von Habsburg who played a key part in the Austria politics of the era, resisted Nazi meddling, became a key figure in the Austrian emigre community after 1938 with the ears of FDR and Churchill, and unlike in Hungary had actual Legitimist support there for a Habsburg restoration in Austria.
True, it was not terrible, but it was a dead empire walking. You should read the work of Joseph Roth: a bit dry, and not the most dynamic by modern standards, but a fascinating snapshot to the twilight of the inefficient decaying empire from an eyewitness to it all. There is a reason it went to pieces by 1918, and the century leading up to it was filled with revolts and growing nationalist movements in all the provinces (very often through the very education systems you mentioned: part of the reason why it was so strong in the empire was because local regions used education as a mode of propagating nationalism to young Czechs, Hungarians, Croats, etc).
It has to be said that before 1918 the best place in the world to be a Jew was in the Empire, however (the election of certain Viennese mayors notwithstanding).
Today, various conservatives (especially Hungarians) like to look back with a wistful nostalgia with an inflated sense of the role they played in the Empire, although if they went back they would find an anachronistic system promoting German nationalism and unable to deal with the modern era.
It is especially disappointing as it means Austria misses out on Otto von Habsburg who played a key part in the Austria politics of the era, resisted Nazi meddling, became a key figure in the Austrian emigre community after 1938 with the ears of FDR and Churchill, and unlike in Hungary had actual Legitimist support there for a Habsburg restoration in Austria.
True, it was not terrible, but it was a dead empire walking. You should read the work of Joseph Roth: a bit dry, and not the most dynamic by modern standards, but a fascinating snapshot to the twilight of the inefficient decaying empire from an eyewitness to it all
. There is a reason it went to pieces by 1918, and the century leading up to it was filled with revolts and growing nationalist movements in all the provinces (very often through the very education systems you mentioned: part of the reason why it was so strong in the empire was because local regions used education as a mode of propagating nationalism to young Czechs, Hungarians, Croats, etc). It has to be said that before 1918 the best place in the world to be a Jew was in the Empire, however (the election of certain Viennese mayors notwithstanding).
Today, various conservatives (especially Hungarians) like to look back with a wistful nostalgia with an inflated sense of the role they played in the Empire, although if they went back they would find an anachronistic system promoting German nationalism and unable to deal with the modern era.
If I can restore and expand the Empire in Victoria 2 then I see no reason why I can bring another Empire back.
Yeah, all the attention to Austria-Hungary (of which I'm as guilty as anyone, but only because I'm an achievement whore) means I don't see anyone talking about the other aspects of the tree.
Just going historical Axis Hungary is actually a lot of fun. I went mobile warfare and spent my limited manpower but good industry on a dozen very legit armor divisions, and just bounced around Europe as a fixer/playmaker for the Axis.
Was very satisfying; possibly my most enjoyable game since playing Allied India on TfV.
Whenever they make the Greater Hungary focus actually do something, the tree (apart from the very dodgy AH part) will achieve perfection.
Just going historical Axis Hungary is actually a lot of fun. I went mobile warfare and spent my limited manpower but good industry on a dozen very legit armor divisions, and just bounced around Europe as a fixer/playmaker for the Axis.
Was very satisfying; possibly my most enjoyable game since playing Allied India on TfV.
Whenever they make the Greater Hungary focus actually do something, the tree (apart from the very dodgy AH part) will achieve perfection.
Same here, I had to drag the Germans by their feet into Stalingrad, Moscow and Leningrad while bouncing back to France in order to delay the allied advance there.
Austria-Hungary really needs a way of getting cores on some of its land, otherwise you end up with a nation with high industrial potential but still struggles in any war because of manpower issues.
What really stands out to me is the fact that Hungary only needs 250k troops in the field to get it's ball rolling in the AHE chain but Romania needs 400k...which practically assures Bulgaria will say yes to being a puppet since I've only had them say no once and I've been messing around with them a lot the last 3 days. Also I think the Align Hungary is bugged because if you force the issue and puppet them you can't proceed down the loyal government chain.
They need to add an on_puppet action that sets the Hungary_aligned flag when Romania puppets Hungary for any reason. It's a very easy fix which I'm sure will come.
With all due respect, you might as well say that because you can keep the throne in the House of York in the War of the Roses in EUIV, you should be able to restore York in HOIIV.
In VicII you have about 100 years, here we effectively have a little over 10. It is apples and oranges.
Fundamentally, however, I agree with you. People should have fun how they want. It should be an option, but it should be:
a) REALLY hard with a whole bunch of issues stemming from a multi-ethnic empire.
b) Be an option for the Austrian tree.
c) NOT come at the expense of actual Hungarian history.
Oh yes, that's why I call it the Austro-Hungarian-Alien-Space-Bat Empire, as that's the only way that a country which was collapsing slowly by 1914 could have been brought back after the genie of independence had been let out of the bottle (Just look at how well Spain did in trying to get back its empire in the Americas after Bolivar and friends went on their romp).
It is especially disappointing as it means Austria misses out on Otto von Habsburg who played a key part in the Austria politics of the era, resisted Nazi meddling, became a key figure in the Austrian emigre community after 1938 with the ears of FDR and Churchill, and unlike in Hungary had actual Legitimist support there for a Habsburg restoration in Austria.
True, it was not terrible, but it was a dead empire walking. You should read the work of Joseph Roth: a bit dry, and not the most dynamic by modern standards, but a fascinating snapshot to the twilight of the inefficient decaying empire from an eyewitness to it all
It has to be said that before 1918 the best place in the world to be a Jew was in the Empire, however (the election of certain Viennese mayors notwithstanding).
Today, various conservatives (especially Hungarians) like to look back with a wistful nostalgia with an inflated sense of the role they played in the Empire, although if they went back they would find an anachronistic system promoting German nationalism and unable to deal with the modern era.
First of all thank you, having a civilised discussion on these topics is nearly impossible on the internet.
I think you make valid points but when I compare it with Serbia it had much more liberalism. Also we should not take the nationalism of the elite for the general population, who more often than not did not care to whom they pay taxes.
Franz Ferdinand for example planned to create athird kingdom which would strengthen the Slavs. On the other hand were languages of the minorities allowed. German nationalism was in my opinion not a driving force since the Habsburgs strongly emphasized their Hungarian side and the Austro-Hungarian empire was despissed by most German nationalists.
Christopher Clark gives a great defense of the Austro-Hungarian empire, in my opinion.
I think in the end it is a question of believe wheather one believes in mutli-cultural empires or homogenous nation states, I think both sides have valid points.
Corruption and decay were evident in the empire, do doubt about that but the sweet smell of death is evident in every and any state since they are all more or less build on corpses.
I have to admit I thought it was a bit weird to see it in the Hungarian tree also, but that's probably because it lets you circumvent the Anschluss.
