Doctrines Increasing Supply/Fuel Consumption: WAD?

[Evil4Zerggin]

None of these are listed in the unit files--they're hidden and hardcoded.

You can see the IC/time changes in the ship builder screen when you change upgrade levels of the ship you're trying to build. For supply and fuel consumption you can detach any unit from the hierarchy and compare with the base consumption stats listed in the file.

 

[TheDarkside]

Or just take an infantry division for example from your army, detach it to remove any command structure bonus, and remove its leader if he has logistics trait. Notice it's base supply/fuel consumption listed in it's details

Now open up Production screen and take a look at the supply/fuel consumption listed there. It is probably a bug that the production screen shows the unmodified supply/fuel consumption (i.e. it's base cost without techs even though it has updated all the other stats of that unit according to techs)

You will see the difference is equal to # of tech levels * 0.01

 

[TheDarkside]

To illustrate my point above:

regiment={
                        id={
                            id=1746
                            type=41
                        }
                        name="222nd Infantry Regiment"
                        type="infantry_brigade"
                        organisation=7.927
                        strength=30.000
                        highest=30.000
                        experience=39.072
                        builder="JAP"
                        smallarms_technology={4 0.000}
                        infantry_support={4 0.000}
                        infantry_guns={4 0.000}
                        infantry_at={4 0.000}
                        night_goggles={0 0.000}
                        desert_warfare_equipment={1 0.000}
                        jungle_warfare_equipment={1 0.000}
                        mountain_warfare_equipment={1 0.000}
                        artic_warfare_equipment={1 0.000}
                        infantry_warfare={4 0.000}
                        medical_evacuation={0 0.000}
                    }

Total Tech advances = 4+4+4+4+1+1+1+1+4 = 24
24 * 0.01 = 0.24

Base Infantry:
0.67 Supply
0.0 Fuel

Added 0.24:
0.91 Supply
0.24 Fuel

See screen shot of the unit referenced above (222nd Infantry) and comapre it to infantry brigade in production screen (which does not properly add the supply/fuel consumption increases)

 

[Funkman3140]

Except that 250 techs would be 2.5 fuel usage, not 0.25...

oops i have bad math skillz :rofl:

 

[unmerged(188932)]

so your saying since stuff becomes more complicated and more advanced it shouldnt take longer to build?

Many of Germany's later more "advanced" weapon systems were actually less complicated. I'm thinking of the highly technical MG34 made from precision machined components to the MG42 a simpler design which was easier to produce from stamped parts.

I'm guessing the doctrines don't in themselves relate to weapon systems but to how they are used.

Seems fair enough that doctrines like the Americans firepower doctrine should mean their divisions cost more supplies to support generally and more in combat too.

I would also think that US divisions cost more manpower to build as many more people are required in the supporting units dealing with the greater logistical tails. The Wermacht had 2 combatants supported by one non-combatant. The US had 1 combatant supported by 2 non-combatants.

I would imagine that German doctrine of manuevre would cost more in fuel during attack. And defence in depth more fuel in defence?

Shouldn't human wave doctrines cost more men in attack?

 

[Kallocain]

Yes, researching even Militia doctrines will cause your Militia to start using fuel (not to mention taking more IC/time to build, but apparently that part is WAD). Is doctrines increasing supply/fuel consumption WAD?

Yes.

 

[TheDarkside]

Yes.

Ok so that stuff is WAD (unfortunately) but then there is definitely a bug with the unit construction screen I posted about just above... the unit construction screen does not reflect those supply/fuel consumption increases

 

[heteaho]

My only question is, why was this feature hardcoded? Sounds a lot like a feature people would like to mod away or change.

 

[VetMax]

i mean common look at anything we have now days. it takes frigging years and billions of dollars and hundreds of man hours to build the military aircraft and what not. im sure it didn't cost a the same amount back in the 1940's..
sorry ranting...

You are wrong. Old aircrafts were were just mopeds with wings if you compare them with modern ones. Yes modern economy is much greater then the old one but you are completely wrong anyway. One ww2 fighter had a cost about 15-20k$ to produce the modern one costs 20-200 mln$
yes the dollar is cheaper now yes economy grew but not so much

 

[P3D]

Yes, researching even Militia doctrines will cause your Militia to start using fuel (not to mention taking more IC/time to build, but apparently that part is WAD). Is doctrines increasing supply/fuel consumption WAD?

Yes.

Any chance to make it moddable?
I do not really want to overhaul the whole tech tree throwing out 75% of the techs (and modify leadership gain accordingly) to reduce it

 

[ulmont]

I do not really want to overhaul the whole tech tree throwing out 75% of the techs (and modify leadership gain accordingly) to reduce it

Couldn't you add a supply and fuel usage modifier to each of the appropriate techs to cancel it out?

 

[zeekater]

This is the first I've heard of this, and it shows IMO that we need a lot more modifiers for upgrading to mod these things

 

[Funkman3140]

You are wrong. Old aircrafts were were just mopeds with wings if you compare them with modern ones. Yes modern economy is much greater then the old one but you are completely wrong anyway. One ww2 fighter had a cost about 15-20k$ to produce the modern one costs 20-200 mln$
yes the dollar is cheaper now yes economy grew but not so much

so a P-51 Mustang would cost around $50,000 in 1945, around $600,000 in current value.

how does that compare to the F-22 Raptor which i think costs around $140,000,000 per unit.

 

[Alex_brunius]

so a P-51 Mustang would cost around $50,000 in 1945, around $600,000 in current value.

how does that compare to the F-22 Raptor which i think costs around $140,000,000 per unit.

Many reasons, here is some off them:

# Economy off scale, ask USA to build 20,000 Raptors instead of 100 and you'll see what their unit price lands at...

# Different units, a P-51 would be more like F-16 today ($15 million), Me262 equivalent with high tech US radar gear would probably better represent the F-22.

Edit: had the GDP numbers wrong, sorry.

 

[unmerged(112834)]

Couldn't you add a supply and fuel usage modifier to each of the appropriate techs to cancel it out?

That should work, a little heavy handed, but taking all of the relevant techs and flagging them with -0.1 supply/fuel usage, to directly counter the hardcoded addition should nullify that I would think.

Of course, I think relevant techs means all of them, lol.

 

[Funkman3140]

Many reasons, here is some off them:

# Economy off scale, ask USA to build 20,000 Raptors instead of 100 and you'll see what their unit price lands at...

# Different units, a P-51 would be more like F-16 today ($15 million), Me262 equivalent with high tech US radar gear would probably better represent the F-22.

Edit: had the GDP numbers wrong, sorry.

my point is still that tech nowadays being more advanced and complex costs more then back in..

 

[P3D]

Couldn't you add a supply and fuel usage modifier to each of the appropriate techs to cancel it out?

Supply and fuel, yes, construction cost, I don't know. How much that is BTW?

 

[Evil4Zerggin]

1% IC and time per upgrade (though it has a nonlinear effect with other modifiers due to percentages being totaled, not multiplied).

 

[JASGripen]

Any chance to make it moddable?
I do not really want to overhaul the whole tech tree throwing out 75% of the techs (and modify leadership gain accordingly) to reduce it

Probably only at the expense of game speed.

 

[Cliff60]

what ur forgetting is inf still use trucks to tow their arty aa and a/t. with bigger and better support weapons the bigger the truck hence more fuel and supplies used. also a higher ic cost to build. armour aircraft and ships will also use more cause they also get bigger and faster. tanks also get heavier as u add better guns and armour. so all costs will go up. the cost in the game isnt as high as it was in the real war. u also have to take into account the extra supplies and fuel needed to get the stuff to the units. even the parts to upgrade units have to get to the unit which means more fuel for that.