Doctrine: Blue-Sky vs Black-Sky

[TheBeautifulVoid2]

On the Southern Front of the First Blorg-Just Alliance War, the Blorg confidently flew their shiny pre-war cruiser fleets out into enemy space and got more or less annihilated by the enemy's mass-driver corvette swarms. After these battles the enemy ground forces recaptured their planets and, had they not collapsed into a three-way civil war, could have counterinvaded into the Blorg's Party Zone.

The lesson we must draw from this is that a victory in your own space is as much a victory as one within enemy space. Whoever wins that naval clash can, if they wish, begin to destroy stations, bombard planets and land ground troops.

In my opinion, this leads to two opposing naval doctrines which would lead to different fleet builds.

Black Sky Doctrine
A Black Sky fleet is one which assumes that it will fight outside of its own borders. This may mean fighting inside enemy space, in neutral space or in the space of an ally. This means that:

• Be self-reliant. A Black Sky fleet cannot rely on the support of friendly defensive installations, spaceports or (if someone adds them in) system ships. This means that the fleet needs to be equipped to handle any given threat.
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• Defence takes priority. Ships which are damaged will need to travel a long way back home. Ships which are destroyed will take time to replace. As a result, protection is important to a Black Sky fleet: a ship which is damaged enough to need to repair may as well have been destroyed.
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• No ship is key. Because reinforcement is delayed, a Black Sky fleet which relies on a single specialised ship will be unable to fight if that ship is destroyed or damaged. This means that a Black Sky fleet would benefit from being made up of all-rounder ships in which no one loss cripples the fleet.
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• You are always the big guy. Here's the nice thing about a Black Sky fleet: they get to choose where the battle is. If an enemy system bristles with defences, they can attack the system next door instead. Because of this, a Black Sky fleet is always going to be able to refuse battle if it wishes, and so only fight when they think they can win.
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• Any time, any place. A Black Sky fleet gives the empire the ability to guarantee the independence of small nations, to intervene in distant wars, and to support her allies. Because they don't rely on support they can fight basically anywhere. A Black Sky fleet is a tool of diplomacy.

Blue Sky Doctrine
A Blue Sky fleet is one which assumes it will fight above its own planets (hence "blue sky.") This means that it can take advantage of repair, support and defence facilities. This means that:

• Stations allow specialisation. By fighting battles near their own defence stations, a Blue Sky fleet can shift some of the weight onto them. This means that ships don't have to carry their own fighters, anti-swarm weapons, et cetera, and can specialise in their own roles.
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• Aggression is a virtue. Because repair facilities are nearby, a ship which takes 90% damage can be patched up soon after battle and is as good as new. Blue Sky fleets can afford to take more damage to their ships, which means they can put less defences on those ships and save the power for bigger (and more) guns.
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• You need to be strong everywhere. Blue Sky fleets need supporting planets and stations in every system in which they fight. This is not only expensive but requires preparation; a scorched-earth strategy or a sudden opening of a new front can leave you vulnerable if you haven't been thorough enough.
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• Be thorough. A Blue Sky fleet can go on the offensive once the enemy are destroyed, but needs to make sure they're destroyed. Make sure that you have ships and facilities which allow you to block FTL retreat and/or pursue fleeing enemies to wipe them out.
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• Fight wave-based running battles. Because repair stations are nearby, a Blue Sky fleet can fall back and repair whilst other fleets hold off the enemy. By fighting with numerous small squadrons and rotating them in and out of battle, a good micromanager with a Blue Sky fleet can keep the pressure on. This allows them to wear down their enemies. The best ships for this sort of fighting will prioritise weapons over armour and will be able to withdraw easily.

Which one is best? The one that helps you in your circumstances.

Empires which are surrounded by enemies and expect to fight defensive wars, potentially against coalitions, should build a Blue Sky fleet.

Empires which are in a safe position and need to support far-flung allies or punish those who displease them, should build a Black Sky fleet.

It's not impossible that a large empire in a strategically interesting situation might build two fleets, one Blue Sky and one Black Sky, to enable them to defend themselves and also carry out expeditions.

What sort of doctrine do you see being appropriate to your empire?

 

[Brownbeard]

Iron sky. Space zeppelins and Meteorblitzkrieg.

 

[hsuzy1987]

I prefer my Space Fleet-in-being doctrine: where everyone pisses themselves because your dreadnaughts exist. Sorta.

Seriously though, I intend to spread my fingers/claws/tentacles across known space, so it's likely black-fleet.

Nice play of words on the brown/blue water fleet doctrines though. Haha

 

[dezuman]

Also regarding FTL warp would be the choise for a black-space navy (range and flexibility, strike anywhere) while blue-space would go with wormhole (fast reaction speed in own territory).

Edit: Hyper would be a compromise, because the black navy will lose some ability to pick fights due to chokepoints while the blue navy will react slower.

 

[Hopejoy]

Personally I am planning on going wormhole for my first empire. So I kind of plan on doing a slow be efficient turtle up. Kind of the empire expands slowly but once it gets moving there is no breaks on this train.

Likely going to go with an aggressive first strike fleet but keep some limited defense specialists behind in case of an attack. That way I can teleport some strong defense ships into a system under attack as needed and let my main aggressive fleets jump all around the foes systems.

 

[Alexmathss]

there is no breaks on this train.

Sorry. I'll leave now.

 

[Sir Garnet]

Very interesting OP.

What are the refuel and repair options of a Black Sky fleet? Any tenders, repair ships, self-repair capabilities?

Obviously Blue Sky forces or their supporting forts will want to have means of interdicting enemy departure so they can be pursued or cut off effectively. A Home Fleet will very likely be a Blue Sky force by necessity, since there is no need for a Home Fleet at all if only Black Sky forces are needed.

Perhaps a Black Sky fleet design would be designated a Strike Fleet (a Cuddle Fleet, in Blorg terms) while a Battle Fleet would be the general category.

 

[Hopejoy]

One time someone found the breaks on the train and slammed it. But the train just kept moving. The train just Kept moving.

 

[Veracin]

Hmmm... Sounds like if you're on or near the galactic edge then Black Sky might be more effective. Near the galactic center is where blue sky would come in handy. Plus I assume any extra-galactic invaders would come in at the edge of the Galaxy so bonus to the galactic center empire.

I'll be playing a multiplayer game on day one with about 24 players including 10 AI. I'm humanity in Sol, and I suspect that I might get more attention than other species because I'm humanity so I'd go with Blue Sky.

 

[Zoinker]

So if I understand correctly, a Black Sky fleet would favor swarms of smaller ships like corvettes while a Blue Sky fleet could afford the bigger, more intimidating ships like Battleships?

Also, even if a Blue Sky fleet manages to go on the offensive, wouldn't it need some kind of contingency in cases like the enemy having an unexpected home fleet, the enemy being able to bog you down long enough to rebuild or an unexpected ally joining the war on your enemy's side?

 

[swiftsvre]

That's an interesting take on the brown/green/blue concept and you're most certainly on to something there.

Good job, TBV, now I feel like writing up a primer to naval concepts and strategies.

 

[doomdude1]

I really, really like the nomenclature you came up with

 

[Shampoocat]

Interesting thoughts there. How exactly do the different FTL options play in to it though? As a variation of the Blue Sky Doctrine, i could see a glass cannon fleet with wormhole stations plus some static defences work. You jump in to the core systems of the enemy with cheap expendable ships, deal a lot of damage while the static defenses delay the enemy from getting to the heartland of your empire. The enemy has to turn around and deal with it or loose its backbone.

 

[Veracin]

So if I understand correctly, a Black Sky fleet would favor swarms of smaller ships like corvettes while a Blue Sky fleet could afford the bigger, more intimidating ships like Battleships?

Also, even if a Blue Sky fleet manages to go on the offensive, wouldn't it need some kind of contingency in cases like the enemy having an unexpected home fleet, the enemy being able to bog you down long enough to rebuild or an unexpected ally joining the war on your enemy's side?

That's the case if the Black Sky fleet couldn't afford to have a bunch of battleships. Black Sky doesn't neccessarily care what size of the ships it has as long as there's relatively a lot of them and they can perform jack of all trades roles.

 

[BrokenSky]

My plan was something like:

Smallest ships: Very little defense, ideally one massive anti-capital ship gun. Probably missiles? And large in number (assuming fleet limit isn't the main concern).
Largest ships: Iron bulwarks: Most of the emphasis is on defenses and health. Main purpose is to be attacked and take a lot of damage without dying. Lots of small, anti-support weapons (probably lasers or lightning, rather than projectiles)
Light Capital ships: Support? (Extra coms, ftl blockers, medic buffs etc) + fighters and point defenses. In battle they mostly Shepard the smallest ships and fight against enemy heavy support ships
Heavy support ships: All purpose combat utility, plus medic if possible. Balanced attack and defense, with a mixture of specialized anti Armour and anti shield weapons.

Do you think this would be Blue sky or Black sky?

 

[TheBeautifulVoid2]

So if I understand correctly, a Black Sky fleet would favor swarms of smaller ships like corvettes while a Blue Sky fleet could afford the bigger, more intimidating ships like Battleships?

Also, even if a Blue Sky fleet manages to go on the offensive, wouldn't it need some kind of contingency in cases like the enemy having an unexpected home fleet, the enemy being able to bog you down long enough to rebuild or an unexpected ally joining the war on your enemy's side?

That's the case if the Black Sky fleet couldn't afford to have a bunch of battleships. Black Sky doesn't neccessarily care what size of the ships it has as long as there's relatively a lot of them and they can perform jack of all trades roles.

If I were to build a Black Sky fleet then I might actually go capital-ship intensive. Because each ship needs to be an all-rounder and needs to be well-protected, this means that they need a lot of slots on their hull for all those choices. Smaller corvettes and destroyers might not be able to manage this as effectively.

However, I think the choice of size of ship depends on your technology and opposition, whereas Blue Sky vs Black Sky depends more on the mission of your fleet. There will be times when the best way to build a Blue Sky fleet is via a swarm of hyperspecialised corvettes, and times when it relies on a few nasty battleships to support the defence stations.

Re Blue Sky fleets on the attack:
The plan with Blue Sky is to destroy the enemy's offensive capabilities in your own space, then counterattack before they can rebuild. Blue Sky fleets aren't as strong when they're outside of your own space, but if you're sitting above the enemy planets blowing up each ship as it gets built then you don't need to be that strong.

If they still have a Home Fleet then the problem isn't that Blue Sky can't attack: the issue is that if you destroyed all their initial attacking fleets and then they still have enough left to stop you, that means they started the war with twice as many ships as you. Against that kind of numerical (and therefore economic) advantage, doctrine will only go so far.

 

[BrokenSky]

If they still have a Home Fleet then the problem isn't that Blue Sky can't attack: the issue is that if you destroyed all their initial attacking fleets and then they still have enough left to stop you, that means they started the war with twice as many ships as you. Against that kind of numerical (and therefore economic) advantage, doctrine will only go so far.

Well then you camp and turtle hard, and let ticking warscore and a dozen successful battles do the winning for you. (Since they're obviously unwilling to send their entire fleet and leave their home undefended, and they can't beat you with just part of it).

 

[swiftsvre]

In fact a fleet intent on fighting in enemy territory is more likely to have a noteworthy number of battleships. Since it relies on its own potential and expects to fight away from any sort of support it'll pour most of the naval budget into ships.

Meanwhile a fleet that plans to fight on home ground and with support by naval stations is going to sink part of its budget into said stations and in turn not have that available to build ships with.

That being said, in most cases you'll employ a mixture of the two approaches for a number of reasons.

 

[TheBeautifulVoid2]

Well then you camp and turtle hard, and let ticking warscore and a dozen successful battles do the winning for you. (Since they're obviously unwilling to send their entire fleet and leave their home undefended, and they can't beat you with just part of it).

This is a good point and I endorse it.

 

[TheBeautifulVoid2]

What are the refuel and repair options of a Black Sky fleet? Any tenders, repair ships, self-repair capabilities?

AFAIK there are none of these in Stellaris, but from a headcanon point of view I imagine that a Black Sky fleet will have an immense and expensive infrastructure of such ships. If mobile dockyards ever get implemented then they will definitely become the core of a Black Sky strategy.

That's an interesting take on the brown/green/blue concept and you're most certainly on to something there.

Good job, TBV, now I feel like writing up a primer to naval concepts and strategies.

Please do! You know vastly more about naval strategy than I do and I'd be fascinated to hear what you have to say.