Doctrinal Troubles

[Alexander Suvorov]

I think maxing out the doctrine tree should not be possible before '44 or even '45.

If this were the case it would be impossible for France to switch doctrines, given the penalty they have for land doctrine research. It would also be damn hard for anyone else switch doctrines, because putting yourself 2 or 3 tech behind in land doctrines even right at the start will mean not having the tree finished before the game ends, and not getting the "best" bonuses at the bottom of the tree.

It look more like a balance problem then anything else as they forget about so many other technologies to be able to research doctrines constantly.

Johan commented a couple of times in the stream that doctrine bonuses are so good they are a no brainer and so expect these to be modified somehow; either their bonuses reduced or their cost increased or both or who knows maybe some other solution entirely. but I'd be surprised if the land doctrine tree remain unaltered.

 

[chemonaut]

If I understand this thread, people seem to be arguing over the game's option of making it possible to go ahead in a portion of a research tree. The most logical responses appear to be: when playing the game, actually taking the option of going ahead in a research tree is a mistake. Anyways, is the argument that it is a-historical to allow going ahead with bonuses and should be curbed, or, is the argument that it isn't fair?

 

[Septawn]

Anyways, is the argument that it is a-historical to allow going ahead with bonuses and should be curbed, or, is the argument that it isn't fair?

A little of both. The biggest problem is that it such a "no-brainer" right now, there is no cost-benefit analysis required. It's weighted so much favor that any cons are moot.

 

[Jourmangandyr]

Exactly, but to in order to be validated, implemented, and improved, they had Spain, Poland and France. Which in game terms translates to XP-requirements. Also, that would be a good incentive for interventionism in foreign wars.

Edit: and let's not forget about air doctrines as well: the Germans imoroved it's aerial performance notably thanks to SCW experience.

This is my preferred solution; XP costs are fairly simple to implement and also make intuitive sense. Also gives more aggressive nations an operational advantage early in the war, which they arguably had historically.

 

[DmUa]

Up until devs will said themselves what they want from their new doctrines design, claiming that doctrine research is too fast or to slow is completely wrong. Maybe it is a whole point of doctrines redesign in HOI4 in comparison to doctrines from previous titles ( i only played in HOI2, so i cant say how different doctrines in HOI3 were ), we really dont know. But judging from the information i saw for now, i think the whole point of new HOI design is -

.
Focus trees, restricted laws, restricted ministers, restricted design teams, restricted research slots, restricted division designer, everything costs fuhrer mana ie they forcing you to make a choices that would make real difference and make you prepared.

 

[griffor]

Up until devs will said themselves what they want from their new doctrines design, claiming that doctrine research is too fast or to slow is completely wrong. Maybe it is a whole point of doctrines redesign in HOI4 in comparison to doctrines from previous titles ( i only played in HOI2, so i cant say how different doctrines in HOI3 were ), we really dont know. But judging from the information i saw for now, i think the whole point of new HOI design is -

.
Focus trees, restricted laws, restricted ministers, restricted design teams, restricted research slots, restricted division designer, everything costs fuhrer mana ie they forcing you to make a choices that would make real difference and make you prepared.

i love that movie

 

[LordOfWar16]

The main benefit from doctrines comes in form of the tactics. Those tactics being unlocked simulate the theory. An unexperienced general wont be able to utilize the propper tactics at the right time for example. Just as with newly researched equipment it will take quiet some time before you feel an considerable impact. Other than that germany already starts with the first 2 doctrines being unlocked and the research speed is affected by Jakobs advisor and limited export aswell.

 

[Salatmander]

Maybe i missed this, but is it not possible to just start "researching" the next tree after youve finished one ? Do you have to pick one path and can`t take a tech of another doctrine ?

 

[Zwirbaum]

Maybe i missed this, but is it not possible to just start "researching" the next tree after youve finished one ? Do you have to pick one path and can`t take a tech of another doctrine ?

You can resarch another doctrine, but it means you abandon previous IIRC.

 

[Salatmander]

You can resarch another doctrine, but it means you abandon previous IIRC.

so you can´t just tech 3 techs "there", then 2 in the naval one and then maybe go completely through the Blitzkrieg like tree ? =/
thats sad...

but choices needs to be made =S

 

[Zwirbaum]

so you can´t just tech 3 techs "there", then 2 in the naval one and then maybe go completely through the Blitzkrieg like tree ? =/
thats sad...

but choices needs to be made =S

You can have one active land, naval and air doctrine.

 

[Salatmander]

You can have one active land, naval and air doctrine.

I see, ok, thanks there mate =)

 

[Denkt]

Maybe they should first look at the techs they don't research and make them more powerful if needed before they look at the overpowered stuff.

 

[griffor]

i think if you can have only 1 active doctrine it does actually make it balanced, if you could have all of germany's by start of war and than begin on the brit's i would say that is op

 

[kviiri]

I think it's partially by design quite quick to research a doctrine fully. Otherwise players would be too reluctant to even consider changing their doctrines when their situation changes.

 

[joe9594]

You can have one active land, naval and air doctrine.

I think that the air doctrines are not mutually exclusive. You can have all of them. ( If they were mutually exclusive you would need to make the bonuses on the non fighter trees stupidly huge to get anyone to pick them. If you cant get air superiority nothing else really matters).

 

[GsusNSV]

I think that the air doctrines are not mutually exclusive. You can have all of them. ( If they were mutually exclusive you would need to make the bonuses on the non fighter trees stupidly huge to get anyone to pick them. If you cant get air superiority nothing else really matters).

I throught the same. So I had a look at WWW 3.
First, there is no 'fighter' doctrine. We only have 3 Air doctrines and they cover either strategic, tactical bomber or Stukas. Fighter techs are put between in the trees.
(The doctrine furthest down researched in Battlefield support e.g. is "Formation Fighting" and gives +15% efficiency for Air Superiority Missions.)
Second, these 3 trees are still mutual exclusive. As shown in the picture, Jakob choosed battlefield support and the other two are crossed. Like the one down the tree withe the fighter in front of spade.

 

[griffor]

I throught the same. So I had a look at WWW 3.
First, there is no 'fighter' doctrine. We only have 3 Air doctrines and they cover either strategic, tactical bomber or Stukas. Fighter techs are put between in the trees.
(The doctrine furthest down researched in Battlefield support e.g. is "Formation Fighting" and gives +15% efficiency for Air Superiority Missions.)
Second, these 3 trees are still mutual exclusive. As shown in the picture, Jakob choosed battlefield support and the other two are crossed. Like the one down the tree withe the fighter in front of spade.
View attachment 154828

well as long as the tree's are balenced i dont see a problem with having to choose the tree that matters