Do you want more EU3?
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I don't agree that the added interest is only for a select few, either. What's Ubik's count up to, almost half a million? (Now granted, half of that is because of updates...)
Much more than half of downloads are the same people updating.
Without any kind of scientific evidence, I'd put the number of single individuals downloading the mod around 50.000.
I can tell you that at MMG2 release, after one hour I had logged more than 1247 downloads while just before release, when the forum users were expecting me to upload the file and officially release it, the numer of users lurking in the Magna Mundi subforum reached more than 70, with more than 50 people always there for some hours waiting... Honestly, it was in that momment that I realized we have achieved something special.
[EDIT: Checking the numbers of more than a year ago, I was wrong. MMG2 had 1247 downloads in the first hour and more than 6000 downloads in less than 9 hours. All the rest stands true. Also, before the first update of MMG2, there were more than 16500 downloads. Sorry for the false info.]
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I am right on the border with this one.
I was really looking forward to a Vic 2 or a CK2, but i guess that if the sales from this would further the goal of creating one of those games, i guess that i will say yes.
I was really looking forward to a Vic 2 or a CK2, but i guess that if the sales from this would further the goal of creating one of those games, i guess that i will say yes.
Of course it is... but I don't believe it to be as biased as one might think. I am still seeing new guys come in long after the releases, especially after complete. There are people coming out of the woodwork on this poll, who haven't posted since Noah. If you were talking about my mods, then yes I'd agree. Extremely small sample there...
I disagree here. The name of the game is 'expand the customer base'. The only way you can do that as a small company making 'niche' games is to allow for your game to be tailored, or modded to create additional markets. No mods would mean the loss of those who want no PTI, the loss of those who want a more 'rigid' history, the loss of those who want a more detailed HRE, or more detailed religious implications. More importantly, it means the loss of those ten customers who really do want pirates, just not the instantly appearing ones...
Mods allow the game to reach and pique interests in places where Paradox can't afford to go. Modding can increase the demand for a game beyond it's normal audience and can target specific groups and encourage them to stay here instead of going off and playing some other companies game. The really nice thing? As long as the game and the mods are done well, their numbers will only grow.
This was done in a few games, IIRC. In fact, my first modding experience was when I purchased a copy of CIV 2 that had ten or so mods included on the disc. As a result, I bought every release of CIV right up through the last one. All since CIV 2 have been disappointments. The #1 reason? The ease of modding the games was gone. With so many glaring deficiencies in the games, and the inability to mod them out satisfactorily I could not fully enjoy them. As a result of these experiences, the games became dust gatherers and I will not be buying any CIV title in the near future that hasn't been out for at least a year or two. Galactic Civ 2 has suffered the same fate. Moddable, but not intuitively so. Again, that game is in the 'recycle bin'.
In contrast, my experience with EUIII has been very positive. I have been able to create and or DL mods to make the game what I want it to be. I'm no rocket scientist, nor am I any sort of coder or programmer, not by any stretch of the imagination. If anything, I'm the epitome of the lowest common denominator. If I can mod this game, anyone else can mod this game, computer literate or not, code savvy or not. You're not going to make the next 'Magan Mundi', at least not without help... But you CAN make meaningful changes in the game that will put a very big smile on your face as you play.
EUIII as it stands isn't the easiest game to mod, but I muddle through. It all makes some sort of sense, and it offers enough content to use so you can actually effect real changes to tailor the game to your liking. Being able to customize a game to fit your own whims is extremely satisfying, adds much to the re-playability issue and has brought me to the place where I would buy an expansion no questions asked. Adding to that capability WILL effect my decision to buy Paradox products in the future.
That is called financial impact.
As an aside... I originally was going to use the 10% rule on Ubik's numbers, figuring 45K as the actual # of people DLing the mod. If they all bought an expansion @19.95... that's 897,750 ducats. You know MMP2 would take advantage of any new material and update to the latest expansion. It only follows that many of their loyal followers would buy it to continue playing the latest version. I actually thought that to be quite high, so I went with a severely conservative 1%, 4,500... Which still produced a number that pays for an employee or two.
As a repair technician, we called that 'money in the bank'...
I understand underestimating the following of a game and it's community can be just as dangerous as over estimating it, so I always low ball numbers. I don't believe I have either over estimated or severely under estimated the impact of modders and those who play them in this case, and the reality is that mods and those who play them are a sizable group of people... A group that is far more inclined than the average person to but another expansion.
Now, if we could just get someone to let us in on some possibilities so we can dream and drool a little...
T
Apologies for the length... This started as a three sentence reply an hour and a half ago...
How time flies when you're typing about fun.
That's a very nice description of why to mod, and the main reason why I do it. Being able to help other people out while doing it is an added bonus.
I'd be curious to know what Johan thinks of what everything has been said thus far...
So what you're saying in a lenghty way that EU3 sucks without mods and that Paradox can't make good game but the modders can. Allow me to disagree, Paradox made EUIII so good (especially when they published IN) that I haven't had any need to try any of the mods, because official release offers so much entertainment and I don't want that some mod ruins it.
(Sorry, if I seem bit belligerent, but attitude that mods are better than original game annoys me, especially when people downplay my favourite games and have the attitude that unmodded games are trash.)
I would love another expansion! The game is very good as it is, but there is always room for improvement! VOTE FOR NEW EXPANSION!!!
i vote for a new expansion but i think it would be pertinent of the game designers to give kudos to the dedicated modders and include mods like MMP and SRI in the new expansion. these mods really do take the game to another level, and it hurts me to think that there is no official recognition for their hard work. anyway, of course yes! more expansions! ive been supporting paradox for almost a decade now and i dont plan to stop.
No, he is not saying EU3 sucks (sorry for talking on your behalf antracer, but some baseless extrapolations get on my nerves).
In fact, the EU3 engine is so good that it allows creative and hardworking individuals to express their views on gameplay and content while sharing it all with everyone.
That a significant part of the users got a bit disappointed with the original EU3 release can only come at no surprise to anyone. The passionate wars going on in the forum regarding the new aproach taken, where one side called the other "randomizers" and the other side called the first one "determinists" (not very different a behaviour that you now display when interpreting antracer's comment as EU3 bashing) stands proof to this rift.
But the game was so good in fact, that it allowed people to reshape it, redefine it and bring a fulfilling experience to those who were not that enthusiastic about EU3 at release state.
And Paradox was smart enough to move in and release a consensual expansion called IN, where everybody agrees the gem is not flawed anymore and EU2 was definitely left in the dust.
I think that he wanted to say that mods (can) make good games even better, broaden the fan base and extend the period of interest people have in the game.
It's not pointless extrapolation. He says that modding is best things in EUIII and if there wasn't such feature he would throw it to the recycle bin like he did with the other games. If he wants to think that his own mods are better than the actual game, that's fine by me, but there's no need to downplay the original titles.
If you want to mod the games feel free to do so, but don't expect that everyone else thinks that your mods are better than the original game and don't accuse others for baseless extrapolations if they don't share your view about necessity of mods.
It's nice for you if you can also mod the new features of expansion, but I certainly don't see that moddability serves majority of the players. Attempting to pleasure small closed elite circles of modders would be a bad business strategy, but if they can add moddability without extra trouble then it's all fine and dandy.
EDIT: Sorry, ubik if I did sound bit grumpy, this just isn't my best day. But however these are my issues:
1. Modders have been already got a lot when Paradox made their game widely moddable, so demanding even more is bit annoying, especially if moddability comes first and new gameplay additions only second.
2. Why should Paradox listen small circle of modders more than average customer and their wishes what there should be in the game?
3. Many pro-modding posts have the attitude that EUIII isn't complete or it's somehow broken without mods. Considering that it's excellent game by it's own and doesn't need mods to be enjoyable, I find such attitude bit annoying.
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I could not agree more. Those posts annoy me to no end.
I would much prefer any EUIII expansion focus on gameplay enhancements exclusively. The game is easy enough to mod for those into that sort of thing.
For the same reason Paradox should continue to maintain the forum here. Just because something can't easily be quantified doesn't mean it can't have a huge behind-the-scenes influence on games' following, longevity and future development.
Honestly, I don't think Pdox is going to change the moddability of their games in the near future. They've had too much success there. That said, they make excellent games in of themselves. Their attention to their fan base is one of the reasons that such a small company can have success in this kind of market dominated mostly by cheap FPS.
As to another EU expansion? It would be cool, and I'd buy it, but what I would really like is if Pdox could expand their timelines and create a sprawling 1000 year game. That, or, as I mentioned earlier, bring all their games up to the EU III engine so that you can import games again.
As to another EU expansion? It would be cool, and I'd buy it, but what I would really like is if Pdox could expand their timelines and create a sprawling 1000 year game. That, or, as I mentioned earlier, bring all their games up to the EU III engine so that you can import games again.
So you're saying that modder's opinion what should be in the game is better than mine or other fans'. It's nice to know that there's "Upstairs, Downstairs" attitude in this forum. I was too stupid and ignorant to think that we were equal around here.
IMO if modders want to influence to the game they should apply to betatesters or do just like everyone else and post their suggestions to general forum threads (like this one).
More baseless extrapolation here...
If a mod has a significant following don't you think Paradox may consider its take on the gameplay?
What is popular in mods is one of the best feedback possible from the community, as long as we all understand we are just considering a small subset of the costumers.
You cannot claim the same about a beta tester own ideas. Those ideas are not evaluated by the community.
Now, I am not ranking forum users here, just stating something that should be obvious. Like claiming that your contribution to EU3 is much bigger than a lurker with 0 posts.
But as I started to say, I don't think it would be a wise move to make mod capabilities a stapple feature of any expansion. It should be about available new content and not about the possiblity of new content dependent on 3rd party amateurs.
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You can keep ignoring my points and claim that I'm extrapolating (without even bothering to give arguments supporting your statement) if you wish, but it doesn't negate my argument.
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