Do you think gene clinic and holo theater upgrades are worth their cost?

[Kryndude]

Now obviously tier 1 gene clininc and holo theater are great. They give you amenities while also providing other useful resources. But are the higher tier versions worth their rare resource cost, pop dedicated to work those jobs, and tech cost in researching them? I personally never even research the techs but it came to me that I may be playing sub-optimally here. What's your opinion?

 

[Althizor]

Upgraded gene clinic is worth it, if only for the pop growth. By the time I can upgrade gene clinics, I typically need a small boost in ameneties too to stay positive. If I need more ameneties, I can usually get by by letting a few more clerk jobs fill.

If I need even more, in comes the servants. If that isn't an option, okay maybe a holo-theater, though potentially I'd build a commerce zone instead.

 

[AlanC9]

I think Althizor's right. The problem with gene clinics is that medical jobs aren't all that great. Eventually you end up with more pops than you otherwise would have had, but until then your output is worse than it could have been. OTOH, a med worker is better than an entertainer if that's all you need to get into positive amenities.

 

[Roddo]

No. As soon as I hit mid-game, or I don't need excess of amenities they go out the window.
Late game you can counter overcrowding and crime with just high stability, which will be a piece of cake to get with just various modifiers picked up from anomalies, treaties with enclaves and the likes.

 

[Theter]

The time you want upgrade to Medical Clinical is typically the exact moment where you don't need them anymore.

 

[Less2]

Gene Clinics aren't great. Takes 55 years to get an extra pop, 110 years for it to pay itself off, even more to pay off the cost of the medical worker job inputs and the opportunity cost of not building another building.

I agree that the T2 upgrades aren't attractive. Especially by the time planets are filling up, luxury housing tends to generate most of the extra amenities I need. Upgraded luxury housing is a decent deal.

 

[anamiac]

Takes 55 years to get an extra pop

I think your math is wrong? Each medical worker gives you 5% pop growth speed, so two of them for the tier 1 building give you 10% pop growth speed. That's .3 pop growth per month, so it's going to take you 28 years to get an extra pop, 55 years to get two pops.

 

[Less2]

I think your math is wrong? Each medical worker gives you 5% pop growth speed, so two of them for the tier 1 building give you 10% pop growth speed. That's .3 pop growth per month, so it's going to take you 28 years to get an extra pop, 55 years to get two pops.

Sorry, I should have said "for each medical worker working, it takes 55 years to get an extra pop". Therefore its 110 years for the gene clinic to pay itself off whether you have it run 1, 2, or 5 jobs, since that's how long it takes a medical worker to grow a replacement pop that works off the debt they've incurred creating them.

You could mod the building to have 100 job slots, it would be a great noob trap.

 

[anamiac]

Is the output of a medical worker affected by happiness, stability, the governor, etc?

 

[AlanC9]

Sorry, I should have said "for each medical worker working, it takes 55 years to get an extra pop". Therefore its 110 years for the gene clinic to pay itself off whether you have it run 1, 2, or 5 jobs, since that's how long it takes a medical worker to grow a replacement pop that works off the debt they've incurred creating them.

You could mod the building to have 100 job slots, it would be a great noob trap.

"Pay itself off" isn't a super-clear way to describe that. It's not like the pops assigned to the gene clinic go away; they're simply working somewhat-less-efficient jobs than they otherwise would have.

 

[Medicine Man]

I'm not sure I'd write off gene clinics as readily as some of the people in this thread. Getting new pops a bit faster has a lot of knock-on benefits under the current system; hitting thresholds for new buildings and government building upgrades, just to name a few. My gut feeling is that getting new pops out earlier will effectively "pay" for the medical workers long before the 55 years quoted.

Simply calculating the time it takes for the opportunity cost to be mitigated is a rather narrow analysis.

 

[Masoz]

Entertainer gives twice as many amenities and also gives unity. I don't understand why they didn't let gene clinics maintain their society research. Using pops for pop growth is counterproductive. And while more of anything is nice... consumer goods are quite often bottlenecked, and I can't really justify how many years of extra goods will be consumed for such a low return.

 

[milesfromordnry]

interesting discussion. i always build gene clinics and upgrade them on my earliest colonies to establish my base of high-pop planets. never thought of it from a cost/benefit perspective. i just want jobs for my people and then more people. and then more jobs for my people. and then more people and then........

 

[trojan1234]

But are the higher tier versions worth their rare resource cost, pop dedicated to work those jobs, and tech cost in researching them?

I used them rarely but I think it worth under certain situation.
- Theater : For example, there is a planet with good +% research modifiers and nice rare features. I don't want to make it ecumenopolis because it will remove rare feature. But I want to develope into tech world. This case I'd rather use tier2 theater to maximize the number of tech buildings instead of using 2 tier1 theaters.
- Clinics : I like to synchronize pop growth over all of my planets but there are planets with minus pop growth speed modifers. To make speed equivalent, I sometimes build tier2 clinic in such planet so that all of my planets have the same pop growth cycle.

 

[Less2]

"Pay itself off" isn't a super-clear way to describe that. It's not like the pops assigned to the gene clinic go away; they're simply working somewhat-less-efficient jobs than they otherwise would have.

A gene clinic is an investment. You spend 55 pop-years to produce a pop. That pop then needs to work for 55 years itself to pay off the cost of its own creation.

If you want to argue that gene clinics are also producing some amenities, sure that's a valid point. Arguably worth around 1/3rd of an entertainer. But if you want to drill down to that detail you also have to take into the CG cost of the medical worker job, the increased food/cg consumption of an extra pop, the maintenance of the gene clinic, the opportunity cost of the building slot, and so on. I'm just trying to keep it simple.

Is the output of a medical worker affected by happiness, stability, the governor, etc?

No. Amenities and pop growth are not resources in the sense that minerals or energy are, they are a planet modifier attached to the job. Amenities get boosted by the relevant bonuses, but not general resource bonuses (or penalties).

 

[Dmitrius]

The gene clinic is worth it in the initial phase, but loses value towards the mid game. Holo temple is a constant feature of my planets.

 

[AlanC9]

If you want to argue that gene clinics are also producing some amenities, sure that's a valid point. Arguably worth around 1/3rd of an entertainer. But if you want to drill down to that detail you also have to take into the CG cost of the medical worker job, the increased food/cg consumption of an extra pop, the maintenance of the gene clinic, the opportunity cost of the building slot, and so on. I'm just trying to keep it simple.

Thing is, 2/3 of an entertainer is often all I need on a planet. If I'm blowing a building slot on either a gene clinic or a holo-theater, and either will give me enough amenities...

Of course, this is highly dependent on your setup. It just happens to work for most of the race and government combos I play.

 

[Less2]

Thing is, 2/3 of an entertainer is often all I need on a planet. If I'm blowing a building slot on either a gene clinic or a holo-theater, and either will give me enough amenities...

Of course, this is highly dependent on your setup. It just happens to work for most of the race and government combos I play.

If you are growing what you need is a variable that just keeps on going up. I tend to build holo theaters when I'm around -5 to -10 amenities so that I get the full usefulness out of them as soon as they are finished.

EDIT: Also worth noting that an entertainer provides 2/3rds the unity of a culture worker. At half the CGs cost. Wow, culture workers really suck when you think about it that way.

 

[Bouchart]

Early on I can't spare the building slot for a gene clinic. Later on I don't have to worry about maximizing population growth at any cost. I might build one on Fen Habbianis because it's huge and I want to fill up that planet as fast as possible, but that's it.

Holo-theaters I will use occasionally on large planets that don't generate enough amenities from other sources, like a research focused 20+ sized planet.

 

[Sinister2202]

I never build holo theaters, unless it's a resort world (just for aesthetics ffs). Commercial and cities are enough for me.