Do you get units when a country cedes territory?

[UP-Cedric]

Do I get units when a country cedes territory via diplomacy?
When I annex western Tschechoslowakia or Poland agrees on giving me Danzig will I get the tanks, equipment or ships that are stationed there as the country doesn´t exist anymore or they lost all their ports?
Or do these units disappear and are turned into "resources" or do I get nothing at all?

 

[inteljoe]

In HoI3, this was the case. As when you would annex Austria, the military units would be absorbed in the the Germany military.

 

[Laexio]

In HoI3, this was the case. As when you would annex Austria, the military units would be absorbed in the the Germany military.

that was a part of the event's coding, rather than an inherent factor of the game. for example, annexing a country with the "retake our cores" cb wouldn't give you all the annexed country's units

it'd be interesting to see this though. victoria 2 has this mechanism, though it probably has a more complex population system than hoi 4 will

 

[CyberianK]

Excess Equipment though is not captured or transferred. They thought about having capturing equipment mechanics but its not currently in the game.

As far as transferring ownership of units that does not happen in normally defeated countries only with special things and events like Anschluss etc afaik...

 

[fastfreddie77]

Usually the military will sabotage or destroy the equipment rather than turning it over but it was never 100% so some transfer of tanks, planes, etc would be nice for the victors inventory. Now capture of raw materials, fuel, or supplies ... it would be nice to see that transferred even if it wasn't 100% if you took that region. Any plans for a scorched earth policy where you can bring the factories/infrastructure down to 0% or somewhere close and they have to be repaired by the enemy before use? Of course the original owner would lose the production line and have to rebuild if he recaptured it.

 

[BBBD316]

I think the Austrian situation is different in this nation was for the most part happy to join to Germany, taking land by force shouldn't get this benefit.

Material or resources yes, army units no. Heck you would just pocket them in non-VP provinces and then take Poland's whole army if you could.

 

[Sharp163]

Do I get units when a country cedes territory via diplomacy?
When I annex western Tschechoslowakia or Poland agrees on giving me Danzig will I get the tanks, equipment or ships that are stationed there as the country doesn´t exist anymore or they lost all their ports?
Or do these units disappear and are turned into "resources" or do I get nothing at all?

I vote yes for navy, no for army.

In real life, the French destroyed their entire navy when the Vichy Regime was annexed in 1942, so the Germans could not take the ships.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scuttling_of_the_French_fleet_in_Toulon

It would only make sense, and give a more historical feel to the game by capturing enemy navies upon annexation. Furthermore, this would help with balance as well, as Germany is going to have a hard time competing against Britain otherwise.

However, this should not be the case for armies, as it would lead to snowballing... And furthermore, if you are annexing a nation, you wouldnt be getting much out of the remains of their army anyways.

 

[CrasherZZ]

In real life, the French destroyed their entire navy when the Vichy Regime was annexed in 1942, so the Germans could not take the ships.

I think you just contradicted yourself? The end-result was that the Germans didn't get the ships from the annexation.

 

[Sharp163]

I think you just contradicted yourself? The end-result was that the Germans didn't get the ships from the annexation.

My point was, countries capture the navies of other countries in real life. An example of this was the attempt of the Germans to capture the Vichy French navy.

 

[CrasherZZ]

My point was, countries capture the navies of other countries in real life. An example of this was the attempt of the Germans to capture the Vichy French navy.

Please give a differerent real life example where the ships weren't scuttled. I think there are more examples of ships being scuttled or moved before capture, that's why it's not allowed in the game. I could see ships being forfeited or given up as part of a armistice or treaty. I could be wrong though, wouldn't be the first time...

 

[Sharp163]

Please give a differerent real life example where the ships weren't scuttled. I think there are more examples of ships being scuttled or moved before capture, that's why it's not allowed in the game. I could see ships being forfeited or given up as part of a armistice or treaty. I could be wrong though, wouldn't be the first time...

Very well.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capture_of_the_Dutch_fleet_at_Den_Helder

 

[CrasherZZ]

Very well.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capture_of_the_Dutch_fleet_at_Den_Helder

That's a great story. They do say that it was "a unique feat in military history", so that actually bolsters my argument. The story is promoted primarily by the French. According to the Dutch commander there was no battle, no fighting - they simply surrendered to a calvary officer at the end of the war with France.

 

[Adonnus]

I know Germany heavily used French vehicles after 1940, and even used some old Renault tanks in the Battle of Normandy in 1944. In fact from knowledge Germany relied on French vehicles to a large extent in Barbarossa. So I think it must be simulated in some way (an event?), or in a future patch.

 

[Sharp163]

That's a great story. They do say that it was "a unique feat in military history", so that actually bolsters my argument. The story is promoted primarily by the French. According to the Dutch commander there was no battle, no fighting - they simply surrendered to a calvary officer at the end of the war with France.

I don't understand what you're trying to argue.

Are you claiming that a fleet has never been successfully captured and used in naval history?

It's more than possible. It would've happened if the French didn't divert the Germans from Toulon.

 

[Sharp163]

I know Germany heavily used French vehicles after 1940, and even used some old Renault tanks in the Battle of Normandy in 1944. In fact from knowledge Germany relied on French vehicles to a large extent in Barbarossa. So I think it must be simulated in some way (an event?), or in a future patch.

This is true.

Although Vichy France was de jure a "neutral state", and labeled as the zone libre ("free zone"), it was de facto anything but that.

Furthermore, if one looks at the list of declarations of war during WW2 (which are, ironically, mostly undeclared ) Vichy France did declare war upon the Soviet Union for Barbarossa.

 

[CrasherZZ]

Are you claiming that a fleet has never been successfully captured and used in naval history?

No, of course not. We're talking about features that shoud be included in the game. The fact that the French successfully scuttled almost every ship in a large fleet before capture shows how difficult it is do it. Several of the French ships actually escaped rather than being scuttled. The point is that it's such a rare event in history, that it would be less realistic to allow it than to disallow it. That's all.

 

[Sharp163]

No, of course not. We're talking about features that shoud be included in the game. The fact that the French successfully scuttled almost every ship in a large fleet before capture shows how difficult it is do it. Several of the French ships actually escaped rather than being scuttled. The point is that it's such a rare event in history, that it would be less realistic to allow it than to disallow it. That's all.

The only reason that the French managed to scuttle the fleet is because they misled the Germans through "diversionary tactics".

I agree that the game does little to nothing to demonstrate the allies deceptive operations, such as Bodyguard and Mincemeat.

However, those would both make interetesting game events the allies certainly did fight dirty sometimes...

In my opinion, there should be an event for the scuttling of the fleet, which fires if Vichy France is annexed/invaded by the axis. There should be a weighted RNG associated with it, with perhaps a 60-40 chance of either being too late or capturing the fleet, respectively.

Of course, this is just my opinion

 

[Adonnus]

This is true.

Although Vichy France was de jure a "neutral state", and labeled as the zone libre ("free zone"), it was de facto anything but that.

Furthermore, if one looks at the list of declarations of war during WW2 (which are, ironically, mostly undeclared ) Vichy France did declare war upon the Soviet Union for Barbarossa.

This isn't really what I meant. I meant vehicles captured from the French Army, not donated by the Vichy regime.

 

[Rubidium]

The only reason that the French managed to scuttle the fleet is because they misled the Germans through "diversionary tactics".

Diversionary tactics helped, but it was hardly unique. The Danes managed something similar with most of their fleet in 1943. The Polish navy either escaped or was sunk.

Sure, there were a few instances (the Soviets inherited the small Baltic navies when they took their nations over, and the Japanese captured a few smaller craft in the Philippines), but they were extremely rare.

And note that in all cases, this was when the entire country was overrun/surrendered. It certainly shouldn't be the case for just part of a country being ceded, as in the OP.

 

[Sharp163]

Diversionary tactics helped, but it was hardly unique. The Danes managed something similar with most of their fleet in 1943. The Polish navy either escaped or was sunk.

Sure, there were a few instances (the Soviets inherited the small Baltic navies when they took their nations over, and the Japanese captured a few smaller craft in the Philippines), but they were extremely rare.

And note that in all cases, this was when the entire country was overrun/surrendered. It certainly shouldn't be the case for just part of a country being ceded, as in the OP.

How about this- if you capture a territory while a fleet is based there, you obtain a portion of the ships, however otherwise the boats escape and can rdv with the allies?