wait...
why?
For rich lands you are allready capeble of building everything you need anyway
for poor lands... why you bother?
on the other hand they also made using colonists to devolp lands a thing too so... just more trouble for AI it seems
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Do we really need building limit depending on devolpment?
- Thread starter makaramus
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why?
For rich lands you are allready capeble of building everything you need anyway
for poor lands... why you bother?
on the other hand they also made using colonists to devolp lands a thing too so... just more trouble for AI it seems
Let's break this down, shall we? So, you made four points:
- You do build a couple naval FL buildings in most of your games.
- Forts are flat modifier buildings.
- Trade buildings are important in land which has estuaries and Costs.
- There are also cases where you would have provinces which would justify building more buildings if you have enough slots.
1) Honest question, why do you spend ducats on FL buildings when you can, instead, spend them on buildings more ships or building the sailor buildings (I will stress, again, that in my experience sailors are the bottleneck and not naval FL). How do your games go that you find these buildings to be a good investment? Are you starting out as a small nation trying to compete on the seas?
Personally, I have quite a bit of experience fighting naval wars where I'm massively outnumbered by the AI and I never thought to myself "If only my FL was higher" but rather "if only I had more sailors" -- usually when I have to go up against the Ottomans and their infinite galley armada and, for whatever reason, I want to contest the seas.
2) Yes, and? Anyone who has experience with EU 4 can attest to the fact that forts should be used occasionally and strategically. Out of all the buildings they are the absolute worst to be spammed as they are the only one to have an upkeep (which can add up really fast if you don't know what you are doing). Besides, money paying on forts is money not being spent on military nor navy.
3) Absolutely. Trade power buildings are pretty much only worth on estuaries and Cost which, incidentally, are usually on land types which game you additional building slots and also the Costs can give you slots -- meaning that these types of provinces are generally the ones that get to have the most buildings already! Removing the building caps would affect them the least. Oh, and they are also generally cheap to Dev as they tend to have Dev reduction built in (land modifiers + Cost modifier), and they are great targets for forcing institutions.
4) This argument has no leg to stand on. Most of the time you need only 3 slots (many., Courthouse, workshop). If the place is great but don't have enough slots than it isn't all that great to begin with. Either because it's Dev is low (in which case Dev the damned thing or forget about it) or it isn't that great to begin with. I'll say it again, the best provinces are either gold mines (and they are the ones whose building slots matter the least) or Cost (whose building slots matter second to least as they just get so many of them.
Bellow are some photos from my first 1.30 game where I got bored waiting for the Revolution to appear and tried to build as many buildings as I could.
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The best part is that you are paying 200 GC that can't be reduced by anything for the 1 manufactory and 1 buildings, and per 15 dev in the province you can do this! Meaning that if you have a 60 dev province you can spend all of your GC in a single province because why wouldn't you. I can't fathom why would you ever want to do this.
EU4 - Development Diary - 27th of October 2020
Hello everyone! Today we are going to talk about some improvements in some interfaces for how you deal with governing capacity and one new feature that uses a lot of governing capacity but also let you “keep growing” on the land you already own...
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My guess is that the 200gc thing will be for one additional manifactury. Otherwise it would be completely useless even for "tall builds".
doesnt matter... I just checked dev diary and they made example with switzerland.
country that starts with 150 goverment capacity...
YEA!
also even then it doesnt matter because it requires you to have 15 base devolpment land there so still doesnt effect my example that much
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Because you are playing a free city and want to stay a free city?The best part is that you are paying 200 GC that can't be reduced by anything for the 1 manufactory and 1 buildings, and per 15 dev in the province you can do this! Meaning that if you have a 60 dev province you can spend all of your GC in a single province because why wouldn't you. I can't fathom why would you ever want to do this.
EU4 - Development Diary - 27th of October 2020
Hello everyone! Today we are going to talk about some improvements in some interfaces for how you deal with governing capacity and one new feature that uses a lot of governing capacity but also let you “keep growing” on the land you already own...forum.paradoxplaza.com
Because you are trying to speed 5 Strait Talk hiding in Hormuz with a galley fleet blocking the straits?
ok, struggling to come up with any good alternative ideas.
sad part is if you are staying as free city that means you are allready getting bunch of devolping since you are spending it on nothing else, thus can build everything anyway.
sure extra manufactories are nice but... they dont worth it if you are not controlling most of the trade.
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1 thing is sure I am gonna play as Ulm and spam that button despite getting crazy amount of goverment capacity problems
also I hope AI taking it wont cripple player O_O
also I hope AI taking it wont cripple player O_O
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Even worse, is the change doesn't, as far as we know, increase the building slot limit above 11.
A free city could plausibly use 4 of the manufactory tier buildibgs, along with pretty much everything else while still pushing dev over 100.
If there was a way to force the emperor to pick the decentralise the HRE reform path, I could see a fun game of trying to get a fully reformed decentralised HRE as a free city all game.
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It does affect the game.
It would eliminate a number of meaningful choices.
The most obvious one I think is that you are no longer tying dev to slots, so you can max effeciency on devving, and max effeciency on what buildings to buy where.
It also eliminates the need to either wait for mana, or delay an idea or tech or some other investment, before devving up to another slot.
Gold is so much easier to come by than mana. Moving the ceiling from dev to gold would let you max out buildings in every province much faster. You would snowball much, much faster.
In sum, removing the cap makes the game easier and simpler. Do we really want to go in that direction?
edit: I'll also point out that production income can be much, much larger than trade income.
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FL buildings are absolutely huge in MP. I'm playing a PLC that has barely expanded at all and I need all of my 350 FL in 1600. Probably 95% of my provinces have a FL building and those that don't should probably have a building deleted to make a FL building since otherwise I go 50-100 over FL for wars.
Some better ways to delete buildings would be helpful. Especially some way to avoid the tedious micro of always setting a -development edict before devving would be nice.
The building limit does need to stay though or we're getting in to a very serious balance change. Maybe if buildings went back to being destroyed on conquest it would be OK.
Some better ways to delete buildings would be helpful. Especially some way to avoid the tedious micro of always setting a -development edict before devving would be nice.
The building limit does need to stay though or we're getting in to a very serious balance change. Maybe if buildings went back to being destroyed on conquest it would be OK.
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doesn matter in this case since in MP games no one allows anyone to expand too much unless they are playing as team so you will be playing tallish anyway.
After all thats why force limit buildings are too much important there:Because you cant spend same resources for conquest.
even then I allready said we should upgrade force limit buildings to manufactory level building and make them give MUCH MORE force limit anyway.
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I fail to see how that would eliminate any meaningful choice with the system as is.
To your point of using Monarch Power to get more slots, in my experience the only time it is worth to invest more than 2 Dev in a province to unlock another slot is when you have a gold province. Every other province? If it is more than 2 Dev for another slot than don't bother. Chances are you already have a Manu. + gC buildings there anyway so you have the most important stuff already. MP is too important to be spent for just another building slot unless the province will be developed in order to spawn institutions or because of gold.
It ain't worth it, aside from early game gold, to delay tech nor ideas because you want to Dev for slots.
Production usually equals to trade but trade is still potently stronger than production.
In sum: your arguments don't add up for your conclusion. Show me factual evidence that it would make the game easier. It would, in fact make it easier for the AI and the AI having an easier time means that it will potentially be stronger against the player.
Are there currently any mods out there that make the building slots divorced from development, as per OP? If so, how does the game play (how would the AI even handle it?)? If not, could such a thing even be modable?
MEIOU. All provinces can use all slots, no matter the dev. So it is moddable. But we cant take conclusions from that mod to guess how vanilla would handle unlimited slots, because that mod is too alien to vanilla, basically another game.
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I mean... modding all buildings to give "+1 building slot" is basically same thing
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