Do we really need building limit depending on devolpment?

[makaramus]

Call me crazy but in a game where we got % based bonuses for buildings (atleast mostly) I feel like we dont need to limit it by slots O_O
SureI can build every building at random land at siberia like that but... will I? I mean even if I build everything but manufactories(which, you only build them at there) I will gain someting like 0.25 ducats at most and someting like 200 man power. yea... its not so great

This matters a lot because with each patch paradox keep shattering lands into smaller pieces and reduce devolpment so it becomes even more of a problem since this system built based on lower amount of land that is high devolpment

Removing this limit will fix micro problem too! Maybe instead make buildings cost more as you keep building more of them?
make stuff like manufactories are "major" buildings and make it so you can only have 1 or 2 major buildings unless you got 30 devolpment then you can have a third one

 

[Reman]

Agreed, since I hate deleting buildings one by one to make room for courthouses. Why should a shipyard prevent me from building a courthouse?

 

[LSF]

It is the only advantage Tall has compared to Wide, now that GC took the place of State limit.

 

[EarlKonrad]

Would also help the AI as it wouldn't so easily lock itself out of building buildings which generate ducats.

 

[EarlKonrad]

It is the only advantage Tall has compared to Wide, now that GC took the place of State limit.

That's the least of Talk's advantage over Wide. Tall doesn't have to deal with OE, AE, wrong culture nor religion, much less admin spent on coring, quicker government reforms, etc.

 

[Battlex]

Call me crazy but in a game where we got % based bonuses for buildings (atleast mostly) I feel like we dont need to limit it by slots O_O
SureI can build every building at random land at siberia like that but... will I? I mean even if I build everything but manufactories(which, you only build them at there) I will gain someting like 0.25 ducats at most and someting like 200 man power. yea... its not so great

This matters a lot because with each patch paradox keep shattering lands into smaller pieces and reduce devolpment so it becomes even more of a problem since this system built based on lower amount of land that is high devolpment

Removing this limit will fix micro problem too! Maybe instead make buildings more as you keep building more of them?
make stuff like manufactories are "major" buildings and make it so you can only have 1 or 2 major buildings unless you got 30 devolpment then you can have a third one

You raise dev of splintered lands then, paradox obvs wants players to dev more these days

 

[makaramus]

You raise dev of splintered lands then, paradox obvs wants players to dev more these days

devolping lands has other purposes. Incrasing value of those lands and spreading inst. or growing without losing your prosperity modifiers.
lets be honest here:No one is gonna build that stupid church at that stupid desert province with 3 tax modifier ever or not gonna devolp it to build it anyway even if you had infinite money and infinite monarch points BECAUSE YOU WILL ALLWAYS HAVE BETTER THINGS TO DO!
and if AI do it you will almost never notice it as you waste your only building slot there forever.
as far as I know this system used to be here before devolpment system so its not related for game balance of "paradox wants you to devolp it duh".
and if its so much of a problem they can make buildings more expensive to build as you stack them for low devolpmnt lands.

 

[Kimbole]

devolping lands has other purposes. Incrasing value of those lands and spreading inst. or growing without losing your prosperity modifiers.
lets be honest here:No one is gonna build that stupid church at that stupid desert province with 3 tax modifier ever or not gonna devolp it to build it anyway even if you had infinite money and infinite monarch points BECAUSE YOU WILL ALLWAYS HAVE BETTER THINGS TO DO!
and if AI do it you will almost never notice it as you waste your only building slot there forever.
as far as I know this system used to be here before devolpment system so its not related for game balance of "paradox wants you to devolp it duh".
and if its so much of a problem they can make buildings more expensive to build as you stack them for low devolpmnt lands.

Will also add, if you can build a church on that land, and it is the best use can find for that money, it probably doesn’t matter too much what you build where.

 

[makaramus]

Will also add, if you can build a church on that land, and it is the best use can find for that money, it probably doesn’t matter too much what you build where.

Indeed if you are building a church for 0.03 ducat every month its either you are doing super terrible and desperate or super good and now throwing money away.

 

[Battlex]

devolping lands has other purposes. Incrasing value of those lands and spreading inst. or growing without losing your prosperity modifiers.
lets be honest here:No one is gonna build that stupid church at that stupid desert province with 3 tax modifier ever or not gonna devolp it to build it anyway even if you had infinite money and infinite monarch points BECAUSE YOU WILL ALLWAYS HAVE BETTER THINGS TO DO!
and if AI do it you will almost never notice it as you waste your only building slot there forever.
as far as I know this system used to be here before devolpment system so its not related for game balance of "paradox wants you to devolp it duh".
and if its so much of a problem they can make buildings more expensive to build as you stack them for low devolpmnt lands.

A new system of building cost scaling with dev would be alot more work.
Devving provinces got made a base game feature with golden century, and several updated mission trees this patch have dev missions, along with the diet 9/10 giving at least 1 dev provinces missions, there's clear intent on making this a central tenant of gameplay

 

[makaramus]

A new system of building cost scaling with dev would be alot more work.
Devving provinces got made a base game feature with golden century, and several updated mission trees this patch have dev missions, along with the diet 9/10 giving at least 1 dev provinces missions, there's clear intent on making this a central tenant of gameplay

I dont see your point can you explain? This is not sarcasm by the way I just didnt understand connection between what I say and your point.

 

[Battlex]

I dont see your point can you explain? This is not sarcasm by the way I just didnt understand connection between what I say and your point.

I was responding mainly to your claim of 'as far as I know this system used to be here before devolpment system so its not related for game balance of "paradox wants you to devolp it duh".'

 

[EarlKonrad]

devolping lands has other purposes. Incrasing value of those lands and spreading inst. or growing without losing your prosperity modifiers.
lets be honest here:No one is gonna build that stupid church at that stupid desert province with 3 tax modifier ever or not gonna devolp it to build it anyway even if you had infinite money and infinite monarch points BECAUSE YOU WILL ALLWAYS HAVE BETTER THINGS TO DO!
and if AI do it you will almost never notice it as you waste your only building slot there forever.
as far as I know this system used to be here before devolpment system so its not related for game balance of "paradox wants you to devolp it duh".
and if its so much of a problem they can make buildings more expensive to build as you stack them for low devolpmnt lands.

In EU 3 there were about 7 builds (forts included) that you could build everywhere. They each had 5 lvls and their cost would increase linearly (100 ducats for lvl 1, 200 ducats for lvl 2, etc.). There were also 2 additional lvls for each building but you could only have 1 lvl 6/7 buildings per province so you had to chose if you wanted the super church, super shipyard, etc.

In a later expansion they added and additional cost to buildings: magistrates. Now all buildings cost 1 magistrate, you can stockpile 5 of them at a time and there were some ways of increasing your monthly magistrate gain (specialists used to be consumed after doing an action and not be eternal like in EU4).

EU4's initial building system was the exact same as EU3's but instead of paying magistrates you'd have to pay 50 MP they correcponded to the building type (forts and barracks coated MIL, shipyards DIP, churches ADM, etc.)

They finally changed it to the system we have now with the Common Sense update.

Frankly, I never liked any of these systems.

 

[makaramus]

I was responding mainly to your claim of 'as far as I know this system used to be here before devolpment system so its not related for game balance of "paradox wants you to devolp it duh".'

and? Devolpment inside this game used to be fixed value only incrased by events or missions (only very specific ones like for ottomans) and as far as I know building limit was there BEFORE game letting us to devolp lands.
I might be wrong ofcourse its been so long

 

[Battlex]

In EU 3 there were about 7 builds (forts included) that you could build everywhere. They each had 5 lvls and their cost would increase linearly (100 ducats for lvl 1, 200 ducats for lvl 2, etc.). There were also 2 additional lvls for each building but you could only have 1 lvl 6/7 buildings per province so you had to chose if you wanted the super church, super shipyard, etc.

In a later expansion they added and additional cost to buildings: magistrates. Now all buildings cost 1 magistrate, you can stockpile 5 of them at a time and there were some ways of increasing your monthly magistrate gain (specialists used to be consumed after doing an action and not be eternal like in EU4).

EU4's initial building system was the exact same as EU3's but instead of paying magistrates you'd have to pay 50 MP they correcponded to the building type (forts and barracks coated MIL, shipyards DIP, churches ADM, etc.)

They finally changed it to the system we have now with the Common Sense update.

Frankly, I never liked any of these systems.

How did colonists work in eu3, were they used whilst you were colonising provinces, and so could never exceed colonial limit or?

 

[holyvigil]

Thinking about the meta game what it does is it forces you to decide to keep a suboptimal building, destroy it or spend dev to get both buildings.

You could also justify the building limit by saying the upkeep of the building, whether the labor force or another type of upkeep, takes a certain amount of dev. If building upkeep that is beyond the dev limit took a chunk out of your income that would be a solid tactical choice.

 

[Guibou]

EU4's initial building system was the exact same as EU3's but instead of paying magistrates you'd have to pay 50 MP they correcponded to the building type (forts and barracks coated MIL, shipyards DIP, churches ADM, etc.)

They finally changed it to the system we have now with the Common Sense update.

Frankly, I never liked any of these systems.

Thanks for reminding me that. I remember when i started playing my initial impression was ''welp i'll just never build any building ever''.

On topic, I think we can all agree that the building problem is in reality a courthouse problem. Tall players want there building slot to keep it's value and wide players want to reduce click fatigue. A simple fix would be for courthouse only to not use a slot.

A more complex solution would be to have a checkbox in the bulding macromenu that allow new bulding to trash another one to make place for it. It should be made to always trash the lowest value bulding. Usefull for both courthouse and manufactories spam.

 

[makaramus]

Thanks for reminding me that. I remember when i started playing my initial impression was ''welp i'll just never build any building ever''.

On topic, I think we can all agree that the building problem is in reality a courthouse problem. Tall players want there building slot to keep it's value and wide players want to reduce click fatigue. A simple fix would be for courthouse only to not use a slot.

A more complex solution would be to have a checkbox in the bulding macromenu that allow new bulding to trash another one to make place for it. It should be made to always trash the lowest value bulding. Usefull for both courthouse and manufactories spam.

I still have to insist on removing limit. Tall gameplay will be still far superior for buildings
after all:You only need 1 Church to incrase tax income by a lot at 100 devolpment single land
but if we are talking about 33 lands with 3 tax devolpment then you need 33 churches means costs 33 times more.

 

[EarlKonrad]

How did colonists work in eu3, were they used whilst you were colonising provinces, and so could never exceed colonial limit or?

All agents (spies, colonists, diplomats, magistrates and missionaries) in EU3 were used after you perform an action, no matter if the action failed or succeeded. Regarding colonists, you had a base amount of them that you would get annually that could be increased by a myriad of things. You could have up to 5 at any given point (hard cap,like the 999 MP one).

When you wanted to colonize a province you'd send the colonist and it would have a chance of failing to establish a province (which, again, depended on a myriad of factors). If it failed, tough luck, you just lost a colonist and ducats. Once you got a colony going, it would naturally grow until it reached 1K pop and became a "town". In order to make it grow faster, you could send a colonist which, again, had a chance of increasing its population or not. As far as I remember there was no upkeep associated with having colonies. However, in order for you to get the full tariff value out of your colonies you'd need to have a sizable light ship armada, otherwise a % of it would be lost to the ether, and you'd also need to patrol your shorelines each month or else pirates would spawn and seize part of your tariffs (they would also spawn in every sea zone). I don't remember how you'd figure out how many light ships you needed other than spam a lot and hope that you had enough (yes, EU3 was obtuse like that. Still a great game).

So basically you would send colonists everywhere and hope that they did something instead of doing nothing. Most of EU3's systems were RNG like this. The fun thing is that EU4 has A LOT of stuff whose only reason to exist is because EU3 did it like that. For example, why does missionaries increase unrest by 6%? Because in EU3 missionaries gave you +6% monthly chance of a rebel stacking in the province that they were trying to convert.

Colonialism - Europa Universalis 3 Wiki

eu3.paradoxwikis.com

Colonist - Europa Universalis 3 Wiki

eu3.paradoxwikis.com

 

[EarlKonrad]

Thanks for reminding me that. I remember when i started playing my initial impression was ''welp i'll just never build any building ever''.

On topic, I think we can all agree that the building problem is in reality a courthouse problem. Tall players want there building slot to keep it's value and wide players want to reduce click fatigue. A simple fix would be for courthouse only to not use a slot.

A more complex solution would be to have a checkbox in the bulding macromenu that allow new bulding to trash another one to make place for it. It should be made to always trash the lowest value bulding. Usefull for both courthouse and manufactories spam.

I wouldn't say it is a courthouse problem, no. I'd say that GC exacerbated two existing problems: A) No easy way to deleting buildings; B) Low dev land with bad terrain having next to none building slots.

Considering that we now have a precedent for buildings that lock you out of building others of the same type in a province (manufactories), I'd say that buildings deserve a rework. Something like a macrodeletion menu would certainly help and making it clearer that there are a group of buildings that are mutually exclusive would be a start.