Do we have any legit 'Form Yuan' strategies?
- Thread starter Gunnerstrip7
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My "legit" strategy is to start as Great Horde-->Form Golden Horde-->Form Mughals-->Form Japan-->Form Yuan.
I haven't gotten the Great Khan acheivement yet, and I wanted to hit all of the Mongol successor states along the way.
I was planning to just form Yuan straight from Mughals, but apparently Mughals are blocked, and I felt that switching to eastern religion would be easier if I stopped being tribal. It doesn't seem hard though to form Yuan, if thats all you care about.
(Form Yuan, as Sarig Yogir, by 1500. Should be a fun acheievement for 1.22)
I haven't gotten the Great Khan acheivement yet, and I wanted to hit all of the Mongol successor states along the way.
I was planning to just form Yuan straight from Mughals, but apparently Mughals are blocked, and I felt that switching to eastern religion would be easier if I stopped being tribal. It doesn't seem hard though to form Yuan, if thats all you care about.
(Form Yuan, as Sarig Yogir, by 1500. Should be a fun acheievement for 1.22)
They completely block you from expanding East, though, unless you use their conquest CB and then take a bunch of territory for yourself anyway. Which now that I think of it might not be the worst idea.
Keeping them is the best choice. Don't expand east until you have to though.
I'm not very good at this game, but the whole stay as tributary until you're strong enough to fight them is probably the best legit strategy. I did this as Mongolia, took most of the Manchu lands, land all the way to the end of the Kazakh lands, and as far south as Afghanistan. The goal mine in Buryatia and Yarkand solve the money issue if you develop them up. While I was cleaning up rebels, my ally Lan Xang (also a tributary, and has taken almost all of SE Asia) abandons the tributary (despite a mandate of 100) and Ming promptly DOWs them to get them back. I decide I'm strong enough to help them. And we are strong enough, and we win, and by the next war Ming starts right after the white peace, we can win and I take Beijing and some cores). But I'm massively weak at the end, and through nasty events and premature ruler deaths, my horde unity has plummeted. I've managed to stay alive at 0 to 25 horde unity the last 50 years, but just barely. Now Ming is collapsing, I think it's the perfect time to strike, get that horde unity up, and destroy Ming (who can only pay for a 60,000 army now due to -50% goods produced and about 10,000 ducats in loans, down from 200K).
But 15 minutes ago Russia DOWed me and even with Persia, Japan, and Lan Xang, I probably can't beat them. Seems way harder than my Qing run through.
But 15 minutes ago Russia DOWed me and even with Persia, Japan, and Lan Xang, I probably can't beat them. Seems way harder than my Qing run through.
Did you ever use Strengthen Government? I understand that you probably had to sink a shit ton of sword mana into fighting rebels like even I did playing as Manchu earlier, but its a valuable way to avoid sinking too low in Horde Unity. I advise you do everything you can to get it back up(including looting all of Mings provinces, but not razing them). To my understanding you can't, or shouldn't, form Yuan or Qing before Ming is completely destroyed, that way the disaster never goes away and you have time to secure yourself some tributaries
Manchu territory has feudalism again per hot fix patch, it's easily the closest direction to have it. That land is nice for developing compared to alternatives too.
Opps, I haven't played hordes for a long time. I forgot you could even do that haha.
Yeah a lot of problems hordes have can be solved by throwing sword mana at it. Horde unit becomes trivial, for example, after you start being able to afford the cost for strengthening your government. Ideally, I find the best way to play a horde is to keep their unity about 70. That way strengthening the government has an actual effect. If for some reason, you're too far gone and don't have the sword mana you need, the best thing to do is to tribal feud/invade another country and just burn EVERYTHING.
I'm pretty sure burning things makes them core faster too, because it lowers development.
Screenshot or it didn't happenWith only Buryatia and 2 Manchu states bordering Korea fully stated (besides the initial ones) and not razed i can field a 50k army, run 3 +1 advisors and make +3 ducats monthly. And it is before i took land from Ming
Really? I'm doing hordes wrong then. I never field such a big army. For one horses are expensive. And the land crap. I had three gold mines (one of them stated and unrazed) and was running a deficit all the time.Anyway, I now have Ming pretty much on their knees and just wanted to share a funny situation with you guys (so sad I forgot to take a screenshot).
Me and Ming are rivals. Ming has no other rivals, so they allied my rival Russia. Makes sense. After a war I broke that alliance and wanted to attack Ming again.
But behold, they have a new ally: The Ottomans. The same Ottomans who are allied with me for decades, have a trust of 95 and no shared rivalries with Ming. It boggles my mind how they even got that alliance with the distance and allied-to-enemy-malus.
Not game breaking, just called my friends in a BS war and ended that unholy alliance, but somehow the game never ceases to surprise me <3
Next posting I hope I can post a glorious Yuan screenshot.
Screenshot or it didn't happen
Anyway, I now have Ming pretty much on their knees and just wanted to share a funny situation with you guys (so sad I forgot to take a screenshot).
Me and Ming are rivals. Ming has no other rivals, so they allied my rival Russia. Makes sense. After a war I broke that alliance and wanted to attack Ming again.
But behold, they have a new ally: The Ottomans. The same Ottomans who are allied with me for decades, have a trust of 95 and no shared rivalries with Ming. It boggles my mind how they even got that alliance with the distance and allied-to-enemy-malus.
Not game breaking, just called my friends in a BS war and ended that unholy alliance, but somehow the game never ceases to surprise me <3
Next posting I hope I can post a glorious Yuan screenshot.
Got home, booted up the save and found out it actually was only 37k troops (One 26k and one 11k stacks) and not 50k
The rest is still valid though... soz for disinformation Now i managed to beat up Ming with my allies Bengal and Delhi in a defensive war and took a few provinces (The entire western state with trade province Yumen and that part of the Ordos state that i didn't control initially) with 1k ducat reparations. Now the only trouble is that everyone around me are tributaries besides the half-dead Uzbek with crap provinces, only 3k manpower left, calling in manpower from tribes is on cooldown, so just have to wait for that 5-year truce with ming to end
And just lol, in my game i am actually on the way of allying a sucessful Muscovy myself, since it has the Unknown stance towards me for some reason, which makes allying them pretty easy
And i'd think rivaling anyone but Ming in this scenario is... unwise, since it will give Ming easier time finding potential allies
You can take Korchin without annexing any of Mongolia and just move east
Considering taking Exploration (I have Administrative, but haven't had the chance to throw points in it, since i expanded instead), for the chance of spawning Colonialism in my end of the world ... (lets not lie, I'll probably have sudden crashes if it doesn't) ... would it be worth it only for getting it to spawn and then abandoning the idea group again? I'm hardly in a position where it's worthwhile to throw money at colonising, and I don't have a strong enough control over the Beijing note for it to be worthwhile ... While I'm the 3rd biggest development wise (509), I'm still a paper tiger because of my high autonomy
... Only annoying thing is that Chagatai is allied with Nogai and has Yarkand as vassal, making it difficult for me to win against them, for pushing west
Form Shan if you're in a hurry. They are much easier to form than Japan due to only needing 6 provinces, being in (East) India and not needing a navy to get there.
Shan, the Arabia of the East.
I decided to form Russia instead, since I'm already adjacent to them. Thx though.
Considering taking Exploration (I have Administrative, but haven't had the chance to throw points in it, since i expanded instead), for the chance of spawning Colonialism in my end of the world ... (lets not lie, I'll probably have sudden crashes if it doesn't) ... would it be worth it only for getting it to spawn and then abandoning the idea group again? I'm hardly in a position where it's worthwhile to throw money at colonising, and I don't have a strong enough control over the Beijing note for it to be worthwhile ... While I'm the 3rd biggest development wise (509), I'm still a paper tiger because of my high autonomy
... Only annoying thing is that Chagatai is allied with Nogai and has Yarkand as vassal, making it difficult for me to win against them, for pushing west
If you're going to go exploration it's probably worth getting CN in California (conquer a couple native councils + hopping colonies) --> Mexico (you can get treasure fleets and eventually collect the trade directly after taking Japan). You can drop it after that, though Girin node often yields gold or fur which are pretty good so it's not a bad group to keep + push tariffs.
How about starting as Mongolia and forming it? That did not require much time to think off but it seems pretty legit to me.
It depends what someone means by "legit". Some people use that to mean "reasonably close to optimal choice", while others mean "something that vaguely fits my notions of what "should" be allowed in the game".
Per the game's rules and what is *actually* legit (IE possible to do without cheating), you can form it with basically anybody, including Ming (just tag switch to something else first). Not an exciting option, but then he didn't technically ask for that.
You have to culture drift and tag switch to something else first as Ming, but you should be able to manage it then if you do so.
TBH, the mechanic still doesn't really work. I just formed Yuan and will lose about one mandate a month due to lacking in tributaries. Yes I could have worn down Ming even further and formed Yuan later, but the goal for the run was to form Yuan and waiting until the very late game isn't really that much fun because I want to use the Yuan ideas.
So you expand east and south. And because I border powerful nations there, I presume that's the reason for losing Mandate.
I don't really get the calculation. Is it the dev of the countries bordering you? Is it the plain number of tributaries (I have 22)? Am I supposed to make my ally Ottomans a tributary and also every nation bordering me?
So you expand east and south. And because I border powerful nations there, I presume that's the reason for losing Mandate.
I don't really get the calculation. Is it the dev of the countries bordering you? Is it the plain number of tributaries (I have 22)? Am I supposed to make my ally Ottomans a tributary and also every nation bordering me?