Do we have a Flop on our hands??

[unmerged(74599)]

The list of five things, encompasses a very large swath of things. What do you think "severe performance" improvement means, changing the front end graphic to a 16 bit image?

I don't actually think "future plans" for the company are in any way shape or form your business. Your business is whether or not you want to purchase the game or not, this one or future ones. If you don't like the way the company is managed I suggest you go to university or something and write a thesis on "open concept community management, and ethics in the computer age: to apologize or not to apologize, the meaning and social value of internet chatter". I guess it would be sociology. Also, if you like, you could make it your business to report performance issues that you think need to be worked on, as a consumer, as well you could make suggestions as to what you think should be in the game, or not.

That last might even be helpful. But you seem more concerned with being a wounded consumer than doing anything useful: "Oh the humanity!" Other than that, personally, since all you are really doing is trolling, I couldn't give a rats ass if the game melts your CPU. That would be a "severe performance improvement" that would really enhance my enjoyment substantially.

 

[unmerged(148774)]

I don't think that taking a game seriously is nearly as bad as getting angry at people over forum posts regarding the game.

We're all on the same side here, the difference is that people have different ways of trying to get what they want, i.e. an undeniably great game. There's no need to get angry at anyone.

Can't say I agree about the first statement. Anyone who takes a computer game that seriously that they are making nonsensical statements about PI and making up all kinds of crap is in my opinion much worse than me calling someone an idiot on an internet forum. Just my opinion though.

The second point I totally agree with. We all want to see a wonderful game. I suppose there are different approaches to the situation. I feel that complaining about something you have no control over is not productive. PI already knows what is wrong with the game and is currently fixing those problems. Screaming blue murder or insulting them won't make them work any faster.
No need to be angry about anything. On the contrary, I think patiently waiting for a month or however long it takes for 1.2 will be well worth it. Peace.

 

[The Disaster]

No need to be angry about anything. On the contrary, I think patiently waiting for a month or however long it takes for 1.2 will be well worth it. Peace.

Fair point. Fuming and arguing won't help; it doesn't even make the time go faster.

 

[Vulture]

As one of said frustrated players, perhaps if Paradox was actually doing something to fix the major problems rather than just keeping open this thread, then there wouldn't be a need for this thread?

Just a friendly suggestion, mind

Nah ... probably too radical an idea for software development

Phil

/facepalm

I'm tempted to hand out an infraction for this. For sheer ignorance.
If it was an attempt at a joke, it was a very poor one.

You know very well a big patch is being worked on.

 

[Vulture]

RIGHT...

Read this carefully all of you.

I have completely had it with this thread. Not because of the complaints - that's why we kept it open in the first place - but with the personal attacks and the foul language.

This will now stop. Immediately. On the spot. Right this damn minute. You're all old enough to know what normal etiquette is when people are having a conversation. Behave as if you were talking to your father, mother, grandparents or anyone you deeply respect.

The internet is not - contrary to popular belief - a place where you can spout your personal frustrations behind a veil of anonymity. And we will demonstrate that here.

Infractions have been handed out to numerous users for the utter crap they posted between the time I left on holiday - the 11th - and my return. Be ashamed of yourselves.

The next person that even remotely crosses the line will be responsible for the closure of this thread, thereby punishing the people that do try to get their point across in a nice way.

Vulture,
Moderator

 

[unmerged(156617)]

Can't say I agree about the first statement. Anyone who takes a computer game that seriously that they are making nonsensical statements about PI and making up all kinds of crap is in my opinion much worse than me calling someone an idiot on an internet forum. Just my opinion though.

Name calling and personal attacks are just unnecessary, you can express yourself without them.

Some topic brings out a lot of emotion of people to the point they think they have to do it but you dont. You can remain civil even if you think that someone is making "nonsensical statements".

I had a few post like that where I though something was nonsense but later turned out to be just a little bit wrong with an explanation of the facts behind it.

 

[Tecnócrata]

They are not OBLIGATED to fix or do anything...

Indeed. And that's the customer's fault.

 

[unmerged(156617)]

Indeed. And that's the customer's fault.

What do you mean by that?

 

[unmerged(93086)]

Arguing on the internet = fail

 

[Ulsterman]

What do you mean by that?

Viewing things from the most negative possible angle, Paradox could simply say 'you've paid money and you've received something, now live with it' and cancel any support.

Yes, it wouldn't be nice, but in the end the customers would be the losers. It's the same everywhere in the gaming industry - buying an unfinished game leaves you at the mercy of the producers, and if they decide to stop their support, your game is done for and you have paid them for next to nothing.

No, it's unlikely Paradox will follow that path, but yes, other companies have done so before (Tesseraction Games, anyone? Well, at least they received their deserved fate, going down the drain).

Unfortunately PC gamers don't seem to learn from that. They run to the stores, buy games on release day, ignore all warnings about bugs, go through patching hell - and half a year later they do it again with a different game without even remembering.
Some people even claim release day patches to be 'special support' which should be appraised and highlighted. Nothing is worse than that dumb and foolish fanboyism. A release day patch is a slap in the face of the honest buyer - developer and publisher KNOW their product isn't finished, and they still release it.
The worst thing: this procedure works and works, over and over. More and more games are released with major bugs, up to the point of not working at all - but STILL the publishers can go on shelving unfinished, bugged games, because they know there will be enough people foolish enough to buy them anyway.
Thanks to those people betatesting has become something of an oddity in PC gaming, and thanks to those people even bugfixing might become an oddity - let the community do it (Jowood/Gothic 3 anyone?).

Paradox still has a good reputation. They have yet to fail fixing a game after release, and they are more devoted to their customers than other developing teams/publishers.
But (attention, hypothesis!) if they decided to drop HoI3 support right now, for whatever reason, the customers would end up with an unfinished game and without ANY means to get a finished product. The customers would have been ripped off, and it would be the their fault (yes, including mine, as I have already bought the game). And once Paradox release Vicky 2 about half of those ripped off would run to the shops AGAIN and blindly buy the game on release day, and Paradox could COUNT on it. (end of hypothesis)

 

[unmerged(21104)]

Some people even claim release day patches to be 'special support' which should be appraised and highlighted. Nothing is worse than that dumb and foolish fanboyism. A release day patch is a slap in the face of the honest buyer - developer and publisher KNOW their product isn't finished, and they still release it.

Well, you need to consider that for a game to be released on a specific day it means that before that day, manuals need to be printed, cd's burned, etc so that they are ready at that date.
If you do that and then you find a bug, obviously you need a release day patch.

How can you say that is a bad thing and then you talk about paradox also patching games after release? Just saying that doesnt make sense to me, I personally dont like either!
For me patching = Not finished. Period.

Regarding the other problem, I've been a Steam user/supporter since the begining ... it simply avoids the whole distribution, no printing (save the trees ), no cd's, no money spent on useless stuff wich would hopefully lead to cheaper games/more money to development team and less to editing.

 

[Henri]

But (attention, hypothesis!) if they decided to drop HoI3 support right now, for whatever reason, the customers would end up with an unfinished game and without ANY means to get a finished product.

Not really: the modders would probably eventually fix it (somewhat).

As a matter of fact, although I agree that Pradox will do a lot of fixing, I strongly suspect that the game was left in an unfinished state on purpose, expecting modders to do most of the fixing.

Henri

 

[Vulture]

Not really: the modders would probably eventually fix it (somewhat).

As a matter of fact, although I agree that Pradox will do a lot of fixing, I strongly suspect that the game was left in an unfinished state on purpose, expecting modders to do most of the fixing.

Henri

That's about the most disgusting and utterly wrong assumption I've read this far.

 

[joeenochs]

But (attention, hypothesis!) if they decided to drop HoI3 support right now, for whatever reason, the customers would end up with an unfinished game and without ANY means to get a finished product. The customers would have been ripped off, and it would be the their fault (yes, including mine, as I have already bought the game). And once Paradox release Vicky 2 about half of those ripped off would run to the shops AGAIN and blindly buy the game on release day, and Paradox could COUNT on it. (end of hypothesis)

Paradox has to get better release day quality out. I agree. I think that might also be their conclusion from the release of HOI3.

But the only conceivable case I see where Paradox would stop to support their flagship, HOI3, is, when they went bankrupt and there was no buyer.
(Remember they are already planning to do one or more expansions.)
I am willing to take this risk, as it is very small. Compared to the relatively small amount of 40€ spent, it is completely negligable.

I regard the patches I will get as part of the package I bought at release day. This game will slowly grow to perfection and I bought it, because I can already start learning it.

And while better quality on release date is surely possible, releasing a game in the state, HOI3 will have in two years after the second expansion is simply not possible. If you know something about software development, a new system is never perfect and needs time to mature.

 

[Duke of Bavaria]

Viewing things from the most negative possible angle, Paradox could simply say 'you've paid money and you've received something, now live with it' and cancel any support.

Yes, it wouldn't be nice, but in the end the customers would be the losers. It's the same everywhere in the gaming industry - buying an unfinished game leaves you at the mercy of the producers, and if they decide to stop their support, your game is done for and you have paid them for next to nothing.

No, it's unlikely Paradox will follow that path, but yes, other companies have done so before (Tesseraction Games, anyone? Well, at least they received their deserved fate, going down the drain).

Unfortunately PC gamers don't seem to learn from that. They run to the stores, buy games on release day, ignore all warnings about bugs, go through patching hell - and half a year later they do it again with a different game without even remembering.
Some people even claim release day patches to be 'special support' which should be appraised and highlighted. Nothing is worse than that dumb and foolish fanboyism. A release day patch is a slap in the face of the honest buyer - developer and publisher KNOW their product isn't finished, and they still release it.
The worst thing: this procedure works and works, over and over. More and more games are released with major bugs, up to the point of not working at all - but STILL the publishers can go on shelving unfinished, bugged games, because they know there will be enough people foolish enough to buy them anyway.
Thanks to those people betatesting has become something of an oddity in PC gaming, and thanks to those people even bugfixing might become an oddity - let the community do it (Jowood/Gothic 3 anyone?).

Paradox still has a good reputation. They have yet to fail fixing a game after release, and they are more devoted to their customers than other developing teams/publishers.
But (attention, hypothesis!) if they decided to drop HoI3 support right now, for whatever reason, the customers would end up with an unfinished game and without ANY means to get a finished product. The customers would have been ripped off, and it would be the their fault (yes, including mine, as I have already bought the game). And once Paradox release Vicky 2 about half of those ripped off would run to the shops AGAIN and blindly buy the game on release day, and Paradox could COUNT on it. (end of hypothesis)

I can only say that you took the words right out of my mouth, and as game developers seem to think its OK to bring out unfinished products i took my responsibility as customer and buy games only about a year after release , only when they are decently patched, and for a knockdown price. If everyone would do it like that there would be an interest of gaming companies in bringing out finished games, but most people seem to be confident with their current policies and buy the game right away. Its a market and when they can get away with it , why shouldnt they do it? Caring for customers is a value that can be worth something for the industry, but only if the customers are actually thinking customers. Having said that i think Paradox is still the best out there when it comes to fixing issues with their games and customer support in general. But i am no Samaritan that can easily give away full price money that finally gets finished months later when its available much cheaper...so you decide if you wanna let this policy remain....

 

[DarthJF]

And while better quality on release date is surely possible, releasing a game in the state, HOI3 will have in two years after the second expansion is simply not possible. If you know something about software development, a new system is never perfect and needs time to mature.

No, it's not and I doubt any person here expects it, but the state HOI3 was released in is far from the expectable standard. Paradox has released games in bad states before, but based on forum feedback I think HOI3 is the one with most problems yet, and they should really start on focusing in getting their game out in good shape. It doesn't have to be perfect, but without any glaring problems in it.

Otherwise I'm not going to buy their games upon release anymore. I've payed full price of new games too many times, just to wait for months after release to really start getting worth for my money.

That I said, I do hope that I can go out and buy Victoria 2 in the first weak of it's release, and that Paradox fixes not only this game, but also the quality in which they release their games in the future.

 

[unmerged(147960)]

That's about the most disgusting and utterly wrong assumption I've read this far.

Well, the state of this game and Paradox' attitude to release-quality is at least equally disgusting.

 

[unmerged(141552)]

Unfortunately PC gamers don't seem to learn from that. They run to the stores, buy games on release day, ignore all warnings about bugs, go through patching hell

what warnings
i recall amazing reviews no bugs\slowdowns\tech problems at all

 

[Vulture]

Well, the state of this game and Paradox' attitude to release-quality is at least equally disgusting.

Assuming it was done on purpose to me is one step too far.

 

[unmerged(147960)]

Assuming it was done on purpose to me is one step too far.

If Paradox knew the save-game and MP components were non-functional, and I fail to see how they could not, then it was done on purpose.

But apparently the longest period for which the game was tested was two hours? Considering the game is supposed to run for tens of hours I'd say two-hour tests amounted to gross negligence, wouldn't you agree?