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You've already given Paradox more information about yourself by signing up for the forum, all registering the game does is enter a code which tells the forum that the username Koevoet owns the game HOI3.
Well. Let me tell you what happened in my USA game now. It is 1.1c, and a GC 1936 game.
I have, as a beginner to the tech system, been researching mostly, and hardly built anything but IC. What little DI I had, I used to get so close to the Allies I could smell their Guinness and garlic breath. Otherwise, I have, as a good New Dealer, built more industry.
Now, normally, I would have thought that when I join the Allies in 1939, there would be some chance of maybe not both Britain and France having been completely stomped over by the jackbooted thugs from Italy and Germany, but, well, I was wrong. Poland fell after a month, and France was so scared of the Germans there was not a single soldier on guard in Provence, and Italy's proud men wandered up and took Paris before anyone notice. And while at it, they took Nat Spain, that for some reason had decided the Allies were the horse to bet on.
As if this wasn't bad enough, before I could even send an expeditionary force to drink tea and eat crumpet, German troops were visiting distilleries in Scotland.
The Royal Navy, apparently, had seen fit not to stop those friendly-looking troop transports that had suddenly come to visit all over the coast.
So even before my American troops had fired a shot, the war in Europe seemed to draw towards an end. And it's late September 1939 (the war began in March. Or Smarch).
I can't help feeling a bit cheated that while I now no longer have a volunteer army and made the Gear Up For War decision, my units still cost so much IC to build, the Germans surely will outbuild me forever.
Norgesvenn, I loved your post. Its hard enough to write in a second language, but to write with color and personality was very cool.
That doesnt mean that chicken sucks, or that chicken farmers should all change and raise cattle.
Player bases have proven themselves very creative and very talented in some cases. I think pdox should be praised for providing the ability to mod so much in their titles and embracing the modding community, not criticized for being fail if a mod comes out and is possibly better than the vanilla title.
Paradox has the least copyright protection of any game developer out there, have you even looked at the registration page?
You simply take the serial number of your game, open up the my games/registration at the top of your page and insert the number, viola. You dont need to give them anything.
In fact you had to provide far more information in order to create an account so you could post here...
A throw-away email address/account that is linked to an alias and another throw-away email address/account with the only real information being the particular state I happen to live in.
That's what they know about me. That's all I want them to know about me. That's all they will know about me.
Although by posting here I suppose they have access to my IP address, which changes frequently and is not going to be released by the company, so I really don't care about that.
It's nobody's darn business what user Koevoet owns, be it automobiles, cats, firearms, computer games, books, movies, etc.
Should I register my stove with General Electric so they know that I own it?
It would be best if you didn't assume that everyone agrees with you. Saying "we", "everyone" and "people should" is not aplicable here since you are merelly giving your opinion.
I for one do not agree with you at all. For me the whole charm behind developers like Paradox and Stardock is that the community is allowed to take part in the development of their game.
I would not buy buy from Paradox if their games were simply already done right out of the box, without the years of futher development, tweaking and balancing to make it more like the community wants. I know I will be patching HOI3 like 3 years from now and probably totally renewed in interest because the new patch made the game just that much better.
I would feel cheated if Paradox just decides to fix the more glaring bugs on HOI3 and then moves on to something else, like almost every developer out there does.
"Release early, release often"
I know that is the open source motto and HOI3 is clearly not open source, but the concept applies and I for one am totally willing to pay $40 for this game now knowing it will keep on being developed for years to come.
The earlier they release the earlier we can start getting rid of the more annoying bugs, the earlier we can start making mods that may set the parameters for the game to follow, the earlier we can crack the AI engines and start improving it, etc etc etc.
There is NO WAY that holding a game untill it is "finished" can ever amount to the expectations of this community, whatever they release will get picked on and torn appart as being "totally unbalanced" and in need of "serious fixing".
This is just my point of view and in no way I expect you to have to agree with me.
I hope Paradox will quickly bring changes and improvments.
There are many thinks I miss from HOI2, for different reasons: Military Control, Trade for free (giving ressources), ressource stockpile limit,...
Other thinks I don't like. Speed is not one of my main concerns. I find alliance almost useless in HOI3. There is close to no collaboration between allies. I also think AI is too much in control, even in your country, like with theatre creation. On strategy level, since each country is acting independantly, you either follow your own strategy, not relying on your allies, and hoping the will not interfere, or you follow the AI, forget about any strategy and kind of obey to its orders. AI may have been improved, but it can not read in your mind, guess your plans, preferences and wishes.
On the other hand, there are many new features I like a lot. Some of them I wish had been further developped.
I like theatre a lot and am happy it is in the game. But: Why not allowing the user to create them, why not allowing to attach allied unit to a theatre, army or corps, why not having some sort of chart where you could easily manage and reorganize them,...
I am fine with research screen. I actually prefer it to the HOI2 one, as you can search for more the 5 topics. It is now linked to your country's size and economy.
Diplomacy is ok, but I still find it limited. I wish you had more options, like demand exp forces, ask to allo debt, share info from spying with other countries, ...
I like the unit template, and being able to design your own, size it as you wish, mix it,... Reserve is also a nice feature.
Same for limited war and government in exile.
All together, I think this game is bringing some great new features. Some of those would really be great if further developped. But I also am really disapointed with the negative points I have found. I think if you really like to follow history like me (I modded HOI2 in such a way), it's difficult with HOI3. If you don't play historicaly, this game can be great.
I pre ordered the game, and kind off regret I did it, but it was too late. If I could, I would have waited for a few months, for the improvements, and possible extensions. But too late, I bought it, so I just have to wait for the patches and possible changes, hoping they will please me. I don't think I'll play much this game in between. I'll probably go back to HOI2.
But at the same time, HOI2 gave such a return on my investment that I don't feel that bad about having spent some money on HOI3. It is going to the same company. I still have a high opinion of Paradox, and remain confident they will end up making me wrong and make me happy with HOI3.
There are many thinks I miss from HOI2, for different reasons: Military Control, Trade for free (giving ressources), ressource stockpile limit,...
Other thinks I don't like. Speed is not one of my main concerns. I find alliance almost useless in HOI3. There is close to no collaboration between allies. I also think AI is too much in control, even in your country, like with theatre creation. On strategy level, since each country is acting independantly, you either follow your own strategy, not relying on your allies, and hoping the will not interfere, or you follow the AI, forget about any strategy and kind of obey to its orders. AI may have been improved, but it can not read in your mind, guess your plans, preferences and wishes.
On the other hand, there are many new features I like a lot. Some of them I wish had been further developped.
I like theatre a lot and am happy it is in the game. But: Why not allowing the user to create them, why not allowing to attach allied unit to a theatre, army or corps, why not having some sort of chart where you could easily manage and reorganize them,...
I am fine with research screen. I actually prefer it to the HOI2 one, as you can search for more the 5 topics. It is now linked to your country's size and economy.
Diplomacy is ok, but I still find it limited. I wish you had more options, like demand exp forces, ask to allo debt, share info from spying with other countries, ...
I like the unit template, and being able to design your own, size it as you wish, mix it,... Reserve is also a nice feature.
Same for limited war and government in exile.
All together, I think this game is bringing some great new features. Some of those would really be great if further developped. But I also am really disapointed with the negative points I have found. I think if you really like to follow history like me (I modded HOI2 in such a way), it's difficult with HOI3. If you don't play historicaly, this game can be great.
I pre ordered the game, and kind off regret I did it, but it was too late. If I could, I would have waited for a few months, for the improvements, and possible extensions. But too late, I bought it, so I just have to wait for the patches and possible changes, hoping they will please me. I don't think I'll play much this game in between. I'll probably go back to HOI2.
But at the same time, HOI2 gave such a return on my investment that I don't feel that bad about having spent some money on HOI3. It is going to the same company. I still have a high opinion of Paradox, and remain confident they will end up making me wrong and make me happy with HOI3.
No, it isn't. I'm in IT, I understand the forces and pressures, but, am a strong dissenter of current practices in IT and have been for years. I used to sell cars and let me tell you, Mr. & Mrs. Customer do not accept delivery of even a used car if you have to explain why the windshield wipers don't work, but they can get them fixed tomorrow in the shop, sorry it's closed right now.
Granted, there is a huge emotional difference between $40 and $14,000, but the principle is the same. BTW, there is a professional tool I use, called FrameMaker (TM), that goes for $700 a seat - thass right, boobykins, if you want your six person Tech Pubs Dept to have Frame, it's $4200. Up front - all of it.
And it works - flawlessly. The Help & dox are outstanding and useful. It's the tool for we technical writers. Word is for amateurs.
Someday a gaming company is going to make a great game that a lotta people wanna play and when they install it and play it outta da box for six months without any patches needed, that company is going to reap the benefits. Reputation can be everything.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking our hosts, far from it, they're better than most. I wasn't at the meetings and they didn't invite me.
"The customer is always right (even though he needs to be educated occasionally)." Still - customer is King.
I guess you can't see that there is a difference betwee YOU (really you, the person, whoever you are) and your user name on these private forums. Letting the forums know that the user name owns HOI3 has absolutly no contact with you, unless you let them know more about your user name.
Oh, and obviously you already let a lot of people know you own a stove from said brand, considering you bought it somewhere, probably in person, probably with your credit card.
Either way, I really fail to see what's so big about letting Paradox's forums know their user X has bought their game.
But you also told them that you have relatives from Youngtown, Ohio.
And you've already told them that you have a free version of the game you got from a friend. I frankly suspected that you didn't give them any real information to register for the forum, that is besides the point. The point is that you aren't giving them any more information than you already have and I wanted to be sure you knew that. A lot of people think the registration process is more onerous/invasive than it actually is. Of course, you aren't the first to know that and not want to register anyway and I'm sure you won't be the last. Each to his own.
What I find funny is the car analogy everybody seems to be using to back up their complaints. You cannot compare a computer game to a car. If we are to use the analogy then lets do it all the way.
If paradox was a car manufacturer and HOI3 a car then it would look like this:
I just bought a new car but unfortunately there are some problems
1) CG Bug and hotfix patch - The fuel consumption is terrible...starts okay but just gets worse and worse, fortunately those nice people at Paradox are aware of the problem and sent me some new filters and leads which sorted the problem out, they even got someone to put the fix in for me. And it was free.
2) Slow and laggy - Seems there's a problem with accelerator, or maybe its the gearbox, or it could be the fuel pump, not sure what it is actually. Strangely enough, my neighbour doesn't have this problem and he has the same car. Again those nice guys at Paradox have said they are looking into it and as soon as they figure out the problem they will get back to me with a fix. Again they will send out some people to put the fix in place for me. And its free, already covered in the buying price.
3) CTD's - Okay, this is a big problem. Sometimes when i start the car or am driving the engine just dies for no reason. Again this prob doesn't happen to my neighbour. Dunno what is causing it. Nor do the engineers at Paradox, but they are looking into it. Hopefully they'll find the problem soon and then everything'll be okay. Free fix as well they said. Not even labour charges. That rocks!
3) Patches - Cool, the people at Paradox have been tinkering and got a fix available that will add a full spoiler kit to the car. That'll increase the overall performance immensly. And at no cost, they even aded ina n engine overhaul and some parts to increase the power. This is great. It's free too!
4) New Features - Wicked! They can upgrade my car to the newest model for a small fee. Whole buncha new mods and extra's on it now. And best of all if i don't want the full paid for upgrade, the basic retooling to the standard model is still free. Just don't get the new submarine or flight options.
5) Moddability - Woah!! My neighbour just did some tinkering and has come up with a way to make the car hover!!! This is great, all i need to do is call the number on the Paradox site and i can get it. Free!! This is awesome.
Farcical? uhuh, Satirical? You betcha but that actually goes to show that if you take an analogy too far it breaks. :rofl:
As to the other things like Finland in Albania or Mexico invading Germany? Coupla quick questions need to be asked. Was Finland in the allies? If yes then it is plausable...I mean NZ troops invaded Italy and they were sure as hell a lot further away than Finland is to Albania, they just used allied territory in N.Africa to invade. A much shorter hop that.
Mexico invading Germany? Again, are they in the allies? If so just like the USA did, they would use English ports for their D-Day. It's like saying that Germany couldn't use its South Atlantic raiders as the distances were too far. Hello! Transit rights through Argentina ring any bells people?
What needs to be asked is how the actions tie into the game logic at the time of those actions. What was the situation when they occured.
Now if there are no logical methods for the effect to be accomplished, as defined by the situation and the game engine, then yes its a bug, otherwise it's the AI reactiong to influences other than the player. Which is awesome!
If paradox was a car manufacturer and HOI3 a car then it would look like this:
I just bought a new car but unfortunately there are some problems
1) CG Bug and hotfix patch - The fuel consumption is terrible...starts okay but just gets worse and worse, fortunately those nice people at Paradox are aware of the problem and sent me some new filters and leads which sorted the problem out, they even got someone to put the fix in for me. And it was free.
2) Slow and laggy - Seems there's a problem with accelerator, or maybe its the gearbox, or it could be the fuel pump, not sure what it is actually. Strangely enough, my neighbour doesn't have this problem and he has the same car. Again those nice guys at Paradox have said they are looking into it and as soon as they figure out the problem they will get back to me with a fix. Again they will send out some people to put the fix in place for me. And its free, already covered in the buying price.
3) CTD's - Okay, this is a big problem. Sometimes when i start the car or am driving the engine just dies for no reason. Again this prob doesn't happen to my neighbour. Dunno what is causing it. Nor do the engineers at Paradox, but they are looking into it. Hopefully they'll find the problem soon and then everything'll be okay. Free fix as well they said. Not even labour charges. That rocks!
3) Patches - Cool, the people at Paradox have been tinkering and got a fix available that will add a full spoiler kit to the car. That'll increase the overall performance immensly. And at no cost, they even aded ina n engine overhaul and some parts to increase the power. This is great. It's free too!
4) New Features - Wicked! They can upgrade my car to the newest model for a small fee. Whole buncha new mods and extra's on it now. And best of all if i don't want the full paid for upgrade, the basic retooling to the standard model is still free. Just don't get the new submarine or flight options.
5) Moddability - Woah!! My neighbour just did some tinkering and has come up with a way to make the car hover!!! This is great, all i need to do is call the number on the Paradox site and i can get it. Free!! This is awesome.
Farcical? uhuh, Satirical? You betcha but that actually goes to show that if you take an analogy too far it breaks. :rofl:
As to the other things like Finland in Albania or Mexico invading Germany? Coupla quick questions need to be asked. Was Finland in the allies? If yes then it is plausable...I mean NZ troops invaded Italy and they were sure as hell a lot further away than Finland is to Albania, they just used allied territory in N.Africa to invade. A much shorter hop that.
Mexico invading Germany? Again, are they in the allies? If so just like the USA did, they would use English ports for their D-Day. It's like saying that Germany couldn't use its South Atlantic raiders as the distances were too far. Hello! Transit rights through Argentina ring any bells people?
What needs to be asked is how the actions tie into the game logic at the time of those actions. What was the situation when they occured.
Now if there are no logical methods for the effect to be accomplished, as defined by the situation and the game engine, then yes its a bug, otherwise it's the AI reactiong to influences other than the player. Which is awesome!
I agree that a change would be nice. I don't think it's deliberate (in the sense that some here seem to think), I think they just need a better beta process. Not all of that is their fault, if the betas flake out on them, but it would be nice if some of the big balancing issues had been looked at more carefully before release.
I agree with a huge chunck of what you said, with a caveat. Paradox is skating on their reputation as being able to make the fixes good enough that people forget the 'early adopter' pains.
If that part of their reputation ever goes. . . .
I don't have a credit card, you know what happens when you assume?
Touchê.
Although I did say "probably".
Not to mention, do you remember the Bill Gates quote about cars? "If General Motors had kept up with the technology like the computer industry has, we would all be driving $25.00 cars that got 1,000 miles to the gallon." Let's just say there's a sharper innovation curve in computing technology than in the internal combustion engine.
@Bellisarious
I could be wrong, but I think you've never sold anything. You've never had to deal with an irate customer who is legimately upset about something and on the verge of walking out and refusing to take delivery.
See my post above - one day, in the dim future, a little child will ask, "What's a patch, Daddy?"
@ Merrivale
Gates was right, to a small degree. To a large degree, he was being smarmy and juvenile. He didn't have to invest the money involved in car manufacturing. Even back in 1947, when Hudson was announcing their new company, they stated they were investing over a billion dollars (1947 dollars). A reporter quipped, "Give the man one white chip."
Gates is brilliant, but at times jejeune.
I could be wrong, but I think you've never sold anything. You've never had to deal with an irate customer who is legimately upset about something and on the verge of walking out and refusing to take delivery.
See my post above - one day, in the dim future, a little child will ask, "What's a patch, Daddy?"
@ Merrivale
Gates was right, to a small degree. To a large degree, he was being smarmy and juvenile. He didn't have to invest the money involved in car manufacturing. Even back in 1947, when Hudson was announcing their new company, they stated they were investing over a billion dollars (1947 dollars). A reporter quipped, "Give the man one white chip."
Gates is brilliant, but at times jejeune.
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There were some posts earlier by some beta folks--I'm willing to cut them alot more slack now than I was five days ago. Doesn't matter if we like it or not now I guess; buy early and your the tester
Yeah, it was a smart-ass comment. GM's comeback, by the way, was: "If General Motors had developed technology like Microsoft, we would all be driving cars with the following characteristics:
1. For no reason whatsoever, your car would crash twice a day.
2. Every time they repainted the lines in the road, you would have to buy a new car.
3. Occasionally your car would die on the freeway for no reason. You would have to pull over to the side of the road, close all of the windows, shut off the car, restart it, and reopen the windows before you could continue. For some reason, you would simply accept this.
4. Occasionally, executing a maneuver such as a left turn would cause your car to shut down and refuse to restart, in which case you would have to reinstall the engine.
5. Macintosh would make a car that was powered by the sun, was reliable, five times as fast and twice as easy to drive -- but would run on only five percent of the roads.
6. The oil, water temperature, and alternator warning lights would all be replaced by a single "General Protection Fault" warning light.
7. The airbag system would ask "Are you sure?" before deploying.
8. Occasionally, for no reason whatsoever, your car would lock you out and refuse to let you in until you simultaneously lifted the door handle, turned the key and grabbed hold of the radio antenna.
9. Every time GM introduced a new car, car buyers would have to learn to drive all over again because none of the controls would operate in the same manner as the old car.
10. You'd have to press the "Start" button to turn the engine off. (oops, I guess cars do this now
)Bottom line: they're two different industries and comparing them isn't too useful.
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