-
We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
- Status
Didn't read all that but I'm looking forward to my copy coming sometime this weekend.
I still have EU2, EU3, Rome, CK, Ricky, HOI1, and HOI2 installed and have games ongoing in them all.
I don't expect this game to be any different in the long run.
I still have EU2, EU3, Rome, CK, Ricky, HOI1, and HOI2 installed and have games ongoing in them all.
I don't expect this game to be any different in the long run.
Sorry, but you're not disproving my point, in fact you're making it stronger. AT RELEASE, all Paradox games are slammed in the forums. All of them. In regards to HOI and EU, many times this is by people who didn't really play the vanilla game of the previous edition and may not really remember what it was like. And, at least for the last three games, the downfall of Paradox is predicted in many quarters because this new game is so obviously a terrible break from their glorious past. After about 3 or 4 months, the criticism dies down for the most part, probably due to some of the critics just giving up, but also due to the patches and the emergence of mods that satisfy the needs of some of the critics.
The game is broken, we are paying to beta-test, the game is a flop, Paradox is a joke, why didn't they discover all of these issues in the beta, the game is unbalanced, all of these things are said every time. For the 3D games, you can add: why did they switch to 3d the graphics suck, a game like [insert game here] doesn't need 3d why did they switch, the system requirements are dumb for a game like [insert game here] they shouldn't have switched to 3d, they wasted too much time on fancy 3d graphics and should have spent more on gameplay. For the games in a series (at this point just EU and HOI), you can add: this version of the series is a total betrayal of what the series is about and I'm going back to playing the last version.
I have to chuckle at some of the comments about how unplayable at release this game is compared to past Paradox games, do people not remember that pre-HOI2 Paradox games tended to have bunches of CTDs in their early releases (truly the definition of unplayable)?
I'm sure I'll get dismissed as a fanboy, but this is the reality. So I'm not terribly concerned about the future of this game or the future of Paradox. I've accepted that, like any company, there are things that Paradox isn't as good at as others (game-state at release, UI (IMHO)). Let me spare everyone the suspense, the next Paradox release will be greeted in a very similar way to this one.
There are two different sets of things wrong. There are bugs, and there are fundamentally different philosophical positions on how to do things. In the short term the bugs are the more serious problem, as they can render the game unplayable (random CTD's are overcome by a good autosave as long as the save files aren't corrupted) - japan joining the allies while at war with the same allies, and being crushed by china makes crazy stuff happen, and because it happens repeatedly, and reproducably at around the same time (in my particular game), it may as well be a broken savegame. The USA joining the allies at the start of the war in 39 is a bit of a game changer too, as is the wierdness of major AI countries not researching land doctrine techs until at least 1940, if at all means the fights don't play out very sensibly. All of those though, are fixable bugs (some harder than others to fix naturally).
Merely a personal anecdote, but I played EU3 a lot less than EU2. I think I've finished 1 game of EU3, and tried to play half a dozen others. I play through probably 1 game of Vicky and HOI2 every month. And everything I don't like about EU3 vs EU2 I don't like about HOI3 vs HOI2. I'd be reasonably content if we could get most of the events from HOI2 into HOI3 - and then there would be more flavour events to add.
My solution is to look at PI confirmed release dates, and add about 9 months to that to when the actual game is coming out.
August 7th, 2009? Sweet, HOI3 will be out in April 2010! I can't wait!
Paradox makes good games... eventually.
Don't give them my(your) money until then, it just further encourages this behaviour.
August 7th, 2009? Sweet, HOI3 will be out in April 2010! I can't wait!
Paradox makes good games... eventually.
Don't give them my(your) money until then, it just further encourages this behaviour.
Four games ago I would have scoffed and gone all fanboi.
Three games ago I would have suggested that it's not as bad as it seems.
Two games ago I would have kept quiet.
Now I agree.
If everyone did this though there would be no updates as no one would have the game. This happens with every game released and as games get more complex it will get worse not better, so I think it's time that you complainers get off the bus now to save you all further heart ache.
How does our complaints about this game effect you people who feel the need to defend it to the death? Let us make our observations about what needs improvement. To use your own argument, why don't you just hop out of this thread and save yourself the time and energy?
I don't understand this mentality. Does our gripes about the game diminish your ability to enjoy it? If you enjoy the game as it is in its current state so much, why are you arguing about it on the internet instead of actually playing it?
Personally I find the game playable in its current state AND I AM ENJOYING IT, however I am growing tiresome of the totally implausible things occuring. We've all seen the mexican army invasion of north Germany in the forums. In my most recent game Japan invaded and annexed Finland! In what universe is this acceptable?
I don't understand this mentality. Does our gripes about the game diminish your ability to enjoy it? If you enjoy the game as it is in its current state so much, why are you arguing about it on the internet instead of actually playing it?
Personally I find the game playable in its current state AND I AM ENJOYING IT, however I am growing tiresome of the totally implausible things occuring. We've all seen the mexican army invasion of north Germany in the forums. In my most recent game Japan invaded and annexed Finland! In what universe is this acceptable?
I rather play the game now than wait months until I can even play it.
Paradox's approach to release games early is correct.
Paradox's approach to release games early is correct.
So because it seems their corporate policy is to release a game 3-6 months earlier than it ought to be released, rife with bugs, we should just accept it and get used to it.
Most of the criticism dies down because third party mods come out and fix all of the crappy problems that the company left in the original release. Customers shouldn't have to rely on other customers to fix the problems with the product.
I'd rather wait a few hours and have a nice beef roast instead of tossing a frozen meal in the microwave and having "food" in five minutes.
Those who want everything NOW realize they don't get everything when they get what they thought they wanted.
I would have rather waited three more months for a playable and enjoyable game. I'm just glad I was given the game for free and didn't pay anything for it. I was tempted to buy it on my own the day it was released but I had a strong suspicion it would be unplayable junk.
There's a saying in the business world, garbage in, garbage out. If you rush a project don't be surprised when the end result is sloppy and pathetic.
For what Paradox is capable of doing this game is absolutely pathetic.
You can do what you like of course, I'm just trying to point out for all of the "sky is falling" people that this isn't a new situation and was extremely predictable. I was also trying to make the point that many people's issues aren't with HOI3 but with Paradox itself in general. And sometimes a little perspective is nice, particularly on a thread that wonders if we have a flop a few days after release.
I'd also point out, as sirsri noted, that there are really two separate issues here that are being merged together: there are those who just don't like the direction of HOI3 and EU3 (for sirsri--I hate to sound like Ubik, but have you tried Magna Mundi? It may be more to your liking) and then there are bugs and balancing problems inside the game. Those that don't like the direction are only going to made happy by mods (maybe). They are of course free to register their dislike, and there is one thread pretty much devoted to this topic. But let's not pretend that Paradox is going to remake the game to make them happy. Their one experiment with doing just that, adding back in historical monarchs and leaders into EU3 as an option, was such a failure that I doubt they're eager to take another bite of the apple.
As for bugs and balance, yes, this is the way things generally are. Understanding reality is generally a better way to go: the reality is that this is what Paradox games are like. You don't have to accept it if you don't want to. You can choose to not buy them, or buy them a year after they are released. I understand it's frustrating if you like many aspects of the game and want to play it now, but such is life. You'd think so many history buffs would have an easier time understanding and dealing with Paradox's history (by the way, anyone who is going to be up in arms about an expansion vs. a patch, get your flames ready ...)
I would disagree with you on the mods. Like many people on these forums, you're confusing the forums for the majority of the Paradox game-playing population, and the active forum members, who are a decided minority of those on the forums, as representative of the general game population. I'm glad so many people enjoy the various mods for all of the Paradox games, and the incredible amount of effort that is put into those mods is truly amazing. That doesn't mean that I, or many other players, play the mods. The game will be balanced and bug-free without them at some point (my estimate would be 1.3, given the recent trend of fewer, larger patches), so you won't be relying on other customers to "fix" the bugs, etc., you'd be relying on other customers to make the game the way you like it, which is different than the way other people like it. I hope you find a mod to your liking.
That doesn't make it right and it certainly doesn't mean we have to accept it or condone it by buying their games the first day they are released, does it?
If somebody always mistreats you, do you want to go along with business as usual?
People should let Paradox know how they feel by telling them to keep their game until it is truly fit to be delivered to the consumer and used by the consumer.
In its present state the game is not fit to be played. I would be embarrassed to have my name attached to what this game presently is.
As for the importance of mods, let me put it this way... When all I knew was the basic vanilla HOI2, I was decently satisfied, it was a fair game, when I finally had the TRP mod I was as a man who has spent a lifetime eating chicken, finally discovering steak.
I am sick and tired of paying to beta test games. Like it's been stated, this seems to be a new trend in game development.
Developer 1: Well it seems that people want to play *insert name here* now, what should we do?
Developer 2: We could release it now, its full of bugs and doesn't run well on a 2.5ghz Quad-Core processor...
Developer 1: Screw it, give the team a month to hype this through the roof, send out some BS videos and go gold. Try and get as many people to purchase Day 1 so we get as much as we can.
Developer 2: Ooo! And can we then "fix" the issues with patches that take six months and don't do anything?
Developer 1: Yeah, and release some DLC to make them feel "special".
Now not all of these things apply to Paradox, and to fair they have released a hotfix in a timely manner. But... I spent $59 on E:TW, which turned out to be a broken mess with no AI and forum moderators that delete any and all post suggesting an issue. Now, I just dropped $39 on this game which, while great, made old features complicated for the sake of complication and in it's current state the game is horribly optimized. My computer runs World in Conflict, TF2, DoW2, L4D, and other games maxed out. There is no reason this game should run as bad as it does.
Developer 1: Well it seems that people want to play *insert name here* now, what should we do?
Developer 2: We could release it now, its full of bugs and doesn't run well on a 2.5ghz Quad-Core processor...
Developer 1: Screw it, give the team a month to hype this through the roof, send out some BS videos and go gold. Try and get as many people to purchase Day 1 so we get as much as we can.
Developer 2: Ooo! And can we then "fix" the issues with patches that take six months and don't do anything?
Developer 1: Yeah, and release some DLC to make them feel "special".
Now not all of these things apply to Paradox, and to fair they have released a hotfix in a timely manner. But... I spent $59 on E:TW, which turned out to be a broken mess with no AI and forum moderators that delete any and all post suggesting an issue. Now, I just dropped $39 on this game which, while great, made old features complicated for the sake of complication and in it's current state the game is horribly optimized. My computer runs World in Conflict, TF2, DoW2, L4D, and other games maxed out. There is no reason this game should run as bad as it does.
May I suggest you take 3 mins to register the game you didnt buy, that would at least let paradox know you're a legit consumer.
Not saying it isnt a legit copy, just saying that if you want them to listen to you seriously registering it is the first step.
I'm opposed to registration of anything on the grounds of privacy.
I've purchased hundreds of computer games over the last decade and I cannot recall registering any of them.
I don't like a culture that passively accepts the registration of anything ranging from automobiles and dogs/cats to firearms and computer games. I won't participate in such a thing.
Quite frankly it's my own business, nobody else’s.
I've read typical licensing agreements and they state that I can only use their precious software on ONE and ONLY ONE computer. I happen to have multiple computers in my house. I will install and use software on however many of my computers that I wish to, without being told otherwise. This is just one of the reasons I am specifically opposed to registration of software.
You're free to register every aspect of your life and every one of your possessions, I'm not going to go down that road.
At some point I might take and post a picture of a portion of my computer games (perhaps Paradox ones) showing boxes and manuals, but I won't ever register any of them.
And you thought HOI3 would be more like HOI2-TRP instead of HOI2? And again, this is your opinion, shared by many, but not by all (I would guess not by most, given that TRP is one of several mods for HOI2 and the number of people who most likely play vanilla, but you may disagree). Mods are very important to you, and to many others. Thankfully for you they will appear for HOI3 (and given the new AI modding abilities, I think they will be capable of doing things to the game that we can't begin to imagine). But let's try to get rid of the hyperbole--HOI2,as you knew it, was bug-free and balanced. HOI3 will be the same way. HOI2 was not bug-free and balanced on release.
- Status