Do vassals with different culture worth it?

[makaramus]

Starteed as ruler of uppland trying to form Scandinavia. Now I am trying to conquer Sami people to get required lands.
Question was: I don't want their lands to be norse as they are very low quality. I was wondering if I can give them to other sami characters so they won't convert their land to norse culture
I was wondering if this is worth it? How much weight independence faction forming desire incrases with culture being different(they will be same faith just not culture)

 

[tsr-aph]

Here is the AI faction joining code for independence factions.

        #######################
        # Standard AI Weights #

        # +/- 40 join weight at -/+100 opinion
        opinion_modifier = {
            who = root
            opinion_target = scope:target
            multiplier = -0.4
        }

        # for each character.religion != factionTarget.religion add X join-score
        pluralism_fundamentalism_modifier = {
            ASTRAY_BASE_VALUE = 25
            HOSTILE_BASE_VALUE = 50
            EVIL_BASE_VALUE = 100
            BASE_FAITH = faith
            TARGET_FAITH = scope:target.faith
        }

        # for each character.culture != factionTarget.culture add X join-score
        modifier = {
            add = 25
            has_same_culture_group_as = scope:target
            NOT = { culture = scope:target.culture }
        }
        modifier = {
            add = 50
            NOT = {
                has_same_culture_group_as = scope:target
            }
        }

As you can see, if you are Swedish and they are Sami, it's the same as if you two had different, hostile religions.

 

[makaramus]

Here is the AI faction joining code for independence factions.

        #######################
        # Standard AI Weights #

        # +/- 40 join weight at -/+100 opinion
        opinion_modifier = {
            who = root
            opinion_target = scope:target
            multiplier = -0.4
        }

        # for each character.religion != factionTarget.religion add X join-score
        pluralism_fundamentalism_modifier = {
            ASTRAY_BASE_VALUE = 25
            HOSTILE_BASE_VALUE = 50
            EVIL_BASE_VALUE = 100
            BASE_FAITH = faith
            TARGET_FAITH = scope:target.faith
        }

        # for each character.culture != factionTarget.culture add X join-score
        modifier = {
            add = 25
            has_same_culture_group_as = scope:target
            NOT = { culture = scope:target.culture }
        }
        modifier = {
            add = 50
            NOT = {
                has_same_culture_group_as = scope:target
            }
        }

As you can see, if you are Swedish and they are Sami, it's the same as if you two had different, hostile religions.

so... just place a norse ruler to there and be done with it you are saying or make sure thery are small enough that they can't create a strong faction?

 

[InsidiousMage]

so... just place a norse ruler to there and be done with it you are saying or make sure thery are small enough that they can't create a strong faction?

Only rulers who are a direct vassal can join a faction against a liege so you would want any Sami vassals to only have one holding. Also, since you are forming an empire you could give the Kingdom of Sampi title to a Sami duke who only has one county and he would be really weak as a vassal.

 

[makaramus]

Only rulers who are a direct vassal can join a faction against a liege so you would want any Sami vassals to only have one holding. Also, since you are forming an empire you could give the Kingdom of Sampi title to a Sami duke who only has one county and he would be really weak as a vassal.

from experience I know second one is not a good solution since then they just install a stronger ruler as king and then become a strong ruler.
What I did is I conquered half of sapmi lands and converting them to norse culture. Rest are given to sapmis with my faith thus even if they desire to form liberty faction they won't be strong enough
finnish... I think I will just give finnish their own land as I can manage that much.

 

[Secret Master]

Retaining vassals of the wrong culture (or promoting wrong culture people to be vassals) is never a winning strategy in my book.

I'd rather just crush the inevitable peasant rebellions. I can also send the steward to help spread our culture if the vassal has the same culture as me.

 

[Tiax]

Having wrong culture, and especially wrong culture groups vassals is a ticking time bomb that gives no significant benefits. Certainly a skilled human player is more than capable of handling the downsides if you want to keep them around for RP reasons, but the game is designed around the idea that you should quickly eliminate all other cultures (and religions) within your realm.

 

[tsr-aph]

Having wrong culture, and especially wrong culture groups vassals is a ticking time bomb that gives no significant benefits. Certainly a skilled human player is more than capable of handling the downsides if you want to keep them around for RP reasons, but the game is designed around the idea that you should quickly eliminate all other cultures (and religions) within your realm.

And this is one of the things that the culture rework (when it comes out) will fix, in theory. The dynamic cultural acceptance and hybridization will either eliminate the issue entirely or create a situation where letting local Lords run the vassals is a viable strategy.

 

[Tiax]

And this is one of the things that the culture rework (when it comes out) will fix, in theory. The dynamic cultural acceptance and hybridization will either eliminate the issue entirely or create a situation where letting local Lords run the vassals is a viable strategy.

Obviously we'll have to see the final version to really know, but I'm skeptical. Even if your current acceptance is high, its value is subject to change, and you may find it plummeting in the future. It might delay the ticking time bomb, but it doesn't defuse it. We don't even know whether cultural acceptance affects faction logic - the dev diary only says it changes opinion modifiers. Since the downsides and costs of just converting everyone are so minimal (a slight hit to research speed if the counties are low development), it seems like it will always be preferable. Why take a variable acceptance when you can just convert them in a year or two with your steward and get max acceptance forever?

 

[tsr-aph]

Obviously we'll have to see the final version to really know, but I'm skeptical. Even if your current acceptance is high, its value is subject to change, and you may find it plummeting in the future. It might delay the ticking time bomb, but it doesn't defuse it. We don't even know whether cultural acceptance affects faction logic - the dev diary only says it changes opinion modifiers. Since the downsides and costs of just converting everyone are so minimal (a slight hit to research speed if the counties are low development), it seems like it will always be preferable. Why take a variable acceptance when you can just convert them in a year or two with your steward and get max acceptance forever?

I mean, sure from a meta-perspective it will always be strategically best to make everyone think like you and worship the same gods as you. From an RP perspective though, it's nicer to imagine having some Occitan vassals of the French king variously rebelling against or supporting France depending on how the king treats the Occitan.

It also depends on realm size IMO. If we are talking about a few counties, then sure, I agree. If we are talking about the Emperor of Scandinavia who has just steamrollered everything, the time to convert all the Finnish, Sampi, and Estonian lands to a Norse culture, or vice versa, would be far too long and at that point, the new mechanics seem to be a better idea.

Really, I think that you will probably want homogeneous kingdoms but heterogeneous empires under the new mechanics when they finally emerge.

 

[Dayvit78]

When you say you don't want to convert because they are low quality - I assume you're referring to its contribution to tech speed.
I really don't think you should prioritize tech speed.
As others have said, prioritizing stability and opinion is the more viable and provide both immediate and future benefits.

 

[makaramus]

When you say you don't want to convert because they are low quality - I assume you're referring to its contribution to tech speed.
I really don't think you should prioritize tech speed.
As others have said, prioritizing stability and opinion is the more viable and provide both immediate and future benefits.

I tried that... I gave northern russia to rus, northern scandinavia to sami and entire finlandto finish
England, france and germany to norse people
results: If ever happens rebellians are too weak to be threat since rebels are poor and weak while norse people got richest lands in empire
I can see them attempting to rebel a lot but they just can't gather enough strength
would it better to not bother with rebellions ever? maybe... perhaps... almost certanly? But its manageable atleast

 

[Anthalas]

Don't worry too much. Vassal counts usually don't convert the culture of their counties. Duke vassals only do it if they border same culture counties. There is some exceptions with norse in the British Isles. You can find the details in the councillor task .txt file.

 

[zackovs]

Mostly for roleplay reasons. The game is already pretty easy as is so it's an added challenge to not try to culture map paint.