Do the non-player entities ever vote to combat a Crisis ?

[Louella]

This is a common experience for me, a crisis arrives, and the galactic community votes against dealing with it.

INCLUDING those that have already lost some of their most populated systems to whichever crisis is occurring.

Really makes me wonder why I should care about the galactic community mechanism a lot of the time.

 

[exi123]

The answer is yesn't, take the best of it.

 

[Quinzal]

I remember hearing something when Federations was coming out, to the tune of "AI Empires don't have the information that the player has, they can't be sure that the 'crisis' 'threatening' the galaxy actually exists, or is as much of a threat as the player thinks it is, until the moment it shows up at their borders."

So they tried to make it like American politics. Is the Prethoryn Scourge real, or just a scheme by the Lokken Mechanists to grant them the ability to bypass Galactic Law to build more sport utility robots? Are the Unbidden real, or is Orbis Synergies trying to sell end-of-the-world merch again?

 

[GC13]

I remember hearing something when Federations was coming out, to the tune of "AI Empires don't have the information that the player has, they can't be sure that the 'crisis' 'threatening' the galaxy actually exists, or is as much of a threat as the player thinks it is, until the moment it shows up at their borders."

So they tried to make it like American politics. Is the Prethoryn Scourge real, or just a scheme by the Lokken Mechanists to grant them the ability to bypass Galactic Law to build more sport utility robots? Are the Unbidden real, or is Orbis Synergies trying to sell end-of-the-world merch again?

Holy cow, AI empires, fund your diplomatic offices better. Figuring out stuff like this is their entire job.

 

[TheRevanchist25]

I remember hearing something when Federations was coming out, to the tune of "AI Empires don't have the information that the player has, they can't be sure that the 'crisis' 'threatening' the galaxy actually exists, or is as much of a threat as the player thinks it is, until the moment it shows up at their borders."

So they tried to make it like American politics. Is the Prethoryn Scourge real, or just a scheme by the Lokken Mechanists to grant them the ability to bypass Galactic Law to build more sport utility robots? Are the Unbidden real, or is Orbis Synergies trying to sell end-of-the-world merch again?

I like that concept from the devs. It's an immersive idea that has promise, but there is a problem with that. The News. Paradox acts like Live News Feeds wouldn't exist in the year 2500. Which is funny, because in their trailers, they show News feeds of the galaxy watching battles unfold. This excuse cannot work in a world with FTL communications where a spaceship from Space (old) BBC is at the edge of a system broadcasting live the footage of an Unbidden fleet devouring a planet. Heck their own Nemesis Trailer flies in the face of this idea. The whole galaxy knows the System was destroyed, and mobilized to meet the threat in response.

In fact, that would be a great Enclave idea to add to the game. Independent galaxy spanning news organization that provides in character updates on the affairs of the whole galaxy. Basically retool most of the alerts to function as News pop ups that the whole galaxy sees, and attach opinion modifiers and such for each nation according to their ethics.

 

[Louella]

"AI Empires don't have the information that the player has, they can't be sure that the 'crisis' 'threatening' the galaxy actually exists, or is as much of a threat as the player thinks it is, until the moment it shows up at their borders."

Yes... but.... like I said, the ones voting against the resolution to deal with the Contingency, include ones who had their most heavily populated systems taken by the contingency.
I mean, sure, it's reasonable to be unsure that a crisis exists on the other side of the galaxy. But when it's already destroyed a bunch of your worlds ? your capital system ? And you're not sure then, that there's even a problem ?

 

[exi123]

Is the playerempire the only one which gets the information when the crisis arrives? When we get that the Khan is starting to conquer, or that the endgame crisis hits, all empires will get it.

I remember hearing something when Federations was coming out, to the tune of "AI Empires don't have the information that the player has, they can't be sure that the 'crisis' 'threatening' the galaxy actually exists, or is as much of a threat as the player thinks it is, until the moment it shows up at their borders."

So they tried to make it like American politics. Is the Prethoryn Scourge real, or just a scheme by the Lokken Mechanists to grant them the ability to bypass Galactic Law to build more sport utility robots? Are the Unbidden real, or is Orbis Synergies trying to sell end-of-the-world merch again?

When this is true, it feels like a lazy explonation why the AI is not able to vote correctly in the galactic community. But it seems to be in line with other observations, like slaving empires voting to ban organic slave trading and stuff like that.

 

[BlackholePD]

They successfully passed the Unbidden resolution all on their own in my last game, but only after I essentially let the crisis eat 60% of their systems.

 

[Empire of Terra Nova]

yes, though not with a reasonable priority

 

[GC13]

Why are they so hesitant to pass the galactic focus resolutions in the first place? Isn't it just universal open borders? In the real world nations don't like allowing superpowers military access because it so frequently ends up with the superpower invading while they're in the neighborhood, but Paradox games have a magical effect that removes hostiles from within your borders when war is declared that removes that concern.

 

[OnyxAbussos]

I've also heard that the AI's vote on resolutions based on WHO is proposing them, rather than on WHAT the resolution is. Generally, that is. Not sure if it applies to the Crises. But I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out that they say no just because YOU recommended it.

As far as realism goes...
I mean...
I can remember this one time in Earth history when there was a big global crisis and a bunch of countries were like "we gotta band together to prevent this from encompassing the whole world," but then the big economic power was like "Nuh uh, you can't make me, and besides, it was their fault, not ours," and so global, national, and local efforts to handle it remained totally fractured for a good while. And even when the crisis was decimating certain areas the most, those very areas that were hardest hit were like "you can't make me fight against the crisis cuz freedom."
So there is a decent level of realism in THAT sense at least.

 

[TheRevanchist25]

I've also heard that the AI's vote on resolutions based on WHO is proposing them, rather than on WHAT the resolution is. Generally, that is. Not sure if it applies to the Crises. But I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out that they say no just because YOU recommended it.

As far as realism goes...
I mean...
I can remember this one time in Earth history when there was a big global crisis and a bunch of countries were like "we gotta band together to prevent this from encompassing the whole world," but then the big economic power was like "Nuh uh, you can't make me, and besides, it was their fault, not ours," and so global, national, and local efforts to handle it remained totally fractured for a good while. And even when the crisis was decimating certain areas the most, those very areas that were hardest hit were like "you can't make me fight against the crisis cuz freedom."
So there is a decent level of realism in THAT sense at least.

Not really, that "crisis" poses very little threat to the overall existence of life. Every other major crisis of that nature before did ten times more damage at least. There is also a "crisis" that kills tens of thousands of citizens every year, but no one cares and no mandates are made to curtail it.

Comparing lack of action for a galactic extinction to the response of such a relatively pitiful thing as that, is fairly laughable.

 

[klopkr]

Not really, that "crisis" poses very little threat to the overall existence of life. Every other major crisis of that nature before did ten times more damage at least. There is also a "crisis" that kills tens of thousands of citizens every year, but no one cares and no mandates are made to curtail it.

Comparing lack of action for a galactic extinction to the response of such a relatively pitiful thing as that, is fairly laughable.

We're in the Holocene extinction event my dude and governments are barely tackling climate change muchless the massive loss of life of the planet.

Considering earth is our entire livable galaxy I think we can make some comparisons to the crisis

Nearly every sci-fi crisis trope is inspired by real historical crisis after all...

 

[ASGeek2012]

My experience has been that the AI is more likely to vote in favor of declaring another AI the crisis and uniting against them. I was quite pleasantly surprised when they did this the first time it happened. Out of the blue, an ally of mine calls for an emergency vote on declaring some AI the crisis. I start wondering why they decided that this random AI who wasn't that large would be a threat to HOLY CRAP THEY HAVE MENACING DESTROYERS!

So I was doubly impressed that 1) an AI took the "Become the crisis" perk and 2) the other AIs actually recognized the threat and did something about it.

 

[Foxosaur]

From my own experience, it seems the likeliness of a empire voting for a crisis focus is based on how near the crisis is to them versus the weighting of a more regular resolution that may benefit them.

I think this particular way of doing it is wrong as it makes single player campaigns pretty difficult to work with an AI that doesn’t care much.

With Nemesis maybe this is too easily over looked as you get other options but it would be nice if a galactic focus was more regularly successful. I’m sure I’ve seen more galactic market relocation resolutions get passed then I have a Crisis declaration. Something wrong there

 

[SirBlackAxe]

I've watched the AI vote against addressing the crisis while their homeworld was being bombarded, so don't hold your breath.

 

[Incompetent]

The whole business of how the AI votes in the GC is pretty opaque to be honest, with essentially nothing explained in-game. There is a bit more logic to it though if you look at the files, although we can certainly question some of the numbers.

GC votes aren't decided by the usual additive "reasons to accept" formula you see in bilateral diplomacy. Instead the game uses the multiplicative "weight" system, which Paradox usually uses for probabilities of random occurrences, but in this case it's used to make deterministic decisions according to certain thresholds. There's a base weight depending on the resolution, which ranges from 3 "hated" to 7 "loved", but most resolutions have a base weight of 6 "normal"; the threshold weight to vote yes is 7. A weight of 10 is enough to make the AI call an emergency resolution.

Some factors are a hard no (weight 0), for instance on repealing ideologically aligned resolutions. Aside from those "veto" weights, though, the weights for things like ideology (which you'd think would be pretty decisive for some resolutions, like the Greater Good line) are in the range 0.5-2 and often more like 0.8-1.2. The weight for the opinion of the proposer ranges from 0.5 to 1.3.

Looking at the weights for the endgame crisis resolutions, having the crisis empire literally neighbouring you is only a factor of 2, so only enough to cancel out the weight of hating the proposer. You only start getting a positive weight for crisis progression at stage 3, and even then it's only 1.25; for reference, stage 3 means the Sentinels have appeared against the Prethoryn, or the Aberrant have arrived, or the Contingency holds 20% of the galaxy. There are also some ethics factors, but they're pretty small as well. The overwhelming weights only kick in when the crisis reaches crisis stage 4, which is when much of the galaxy has been destroyed, as BlackholePD observed.

Contrast with denouncing a "become the crisis" empire, which has a base weight of 4 "disliked", but gets a couple of hefty weights of 5 each once you reach 1000 and 2000 menace (the first only if the AI is inferior to the crisis empire, the second for everyone). So indeed, the GC is much more likely to respond to such empires than it does the Prethoryn and so on.